Letters to the Editor
Published Letters: 1824
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@ Golden Wanker
[Read the article: Support for al-Qaida plots on large right-wing blog]
[Read more letters about this article: Here]Arne,
Thanks for the argument by assertion that some Muslim countries don't use Islamic law to discriminate against non-Muslims (because you didn't see it!). Unfortunately for your argument, the facts don't bear you out.
Take Egypt, for example.
- An article of the Penal Code which prosecutes actions susceptible of endangering national unity or social peace, is used against those Muslims who desire to convert to the Christian religion. There is direct evidence of various arrests of this type in 1995, and one in 1996. On January 4 1998, Muhammad Sallam, an Egyptian Christian who had converted and already previously been detained for ten months in 1990, together with two other converts, was arrested at Cairo airport and taken to an unknown destination.
Your original assertion:
Baldie, did you miss the list of conditions that I published on how non-Muslims live in Muslim countries? I'm happy to post it again, but I assure you that in Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Pakistan, Malaysia etc those Islamic laws are most certainly enforced, even and especially against non-Muslims.
Believe me, I didn't feel the sting of Shiaria law in any of these places. FWIW, I'll grant you that all accounts I've had of our good buddies, Saudi Arabia, is that I would have found it a very difficult place to work (I would have had to stay on the "compound" and even then probably needed the extended "rest periods" abroad). Yes, there are countries with very strict Islamic law, but that doesn't include Egypt (which knows very well what side of its bread is buttered, with its major industiry being tourism), Indonesia (and Turkey, which you fastidiously ignore).
Your obtuseness requires some self-examination.
Does that sound free to you, Arne, when non-Muslims are officially prosecuted by the government for their religion? For the full list of violations of religious freedom in Muslim countries, please take a look at the following link: http://www.alleanzacattolica.org/acs/ and follow the links for the "Reports on Religious Freedom" and you can read up on Turkey, Indonesia, Chad, and all the other places that persecute non-Muslims as well.
Ummmm, the Catholic church is hardly a paragon for "religious tolerance". To them, it means that people don't welcome them with open arms to come in and convert everyone....
Nonetheless: Here's from the Tchad page off your link:
"Even though there have been some arbitrary arrests, such as that of Tohnel Doumro in November 1996 (an employee of the Catholic development aid agency SECADEV who was afterwards released without charge), the tolerant traditions of Chadian Islam seem for the most part to have prevailed, even in relations with non-Muslims – although it would be simplistic to equate traditionalism with tolerance and reformism with intolerance."
Turkiye:
"Since 1928, Islam has no longer been the state religion in Turkey. According to the Constitution of the Turkish Republic, every person has freedom of conscience and religious creed; religious and liturgical celebrations may be conducted freely. No one can be forced to take part in rites or be accused on grounds of his creed and convictions. Education, and religious and ethical instruction are conducted under the supervision of the state; they are obligatory at the primary and secondary school levels. Other types of religious instruction are subject to the wishes of the individual and, in the case of minors, to the requests of their legal guardians. The government has recently approved measures aimed at ending Islamic teaching financed by the state; it has banned the fez and the veil and has decided to adopt the Latin alphabet, abolishing the Arab alphabet."
Indonesia:
"Under the Constitution of 1945, the condition laid down for religions in Indonesia is that of monotheism. The people must be devoted to their God, in accordance with their own religion, must co-operate with those belonging to other denominations in order to create a life of harmony, respecting their liberty and their activities and not forcing anyone to believe in another religion. The constitution permits five religions, Christianity included. Close on 90% of the population is Muslim, and there have been attempts on the part of a minority of Islamic fundamentalists to have the Koran made the basis of the constitution, even though the majority of Muslims prefer to retain the present situation. On Java, Islam is strongly influenced by Hindu thought, whereas elsewhere Islamic law prevails. The Christian churches are active, even though they are a minority, subjected to constant obstacles by the Muslims right down to the small details such as local relations. Two decrees dating from 1978 prevent religious propaganda "for making converts" and require the obtaining of government approval for aid from abroad. There have also been difficulties in obtaining permits for the construction of churches."
Then there's our own Church of the Lukumi Babalu Aye v. Hialeah....
I'm not saying that these countries are the acme of religious freedom, but I think you over-rate the supposed persecutions there. And the tolerance of such countries such as Turkey (and the secularism of Indonesia) are proof against your assertion that Islam is totally incompatible with religious freedom.
I would like to think ... that liberalism is not inextricably tied to its polar opposite, Islam. I think most of us are sincere in our committment to individual liberties, which is the bedrock of the philosophy, and that the cognitive dissonance required to at the same time shelter the murderous illiberal ideology of Islam is a temporary aberration....
I'd say that you need to get out more. ;-)
... Arne, I think it's clear just from our last few letters which one of us is being irrational and hating and which of us is calmly posting facts. Or maybe when you were in Egypt you didn't see these things happening and so they aren't real to you? It seems to me that you are the one with the blind spot.
Me and eveyone else, I guess. Wow. "You're all wrong and stoopid! And uninformed! You just don't know what's going on. I've travelled all over the web, and I'm a friggin' expert!!!"
Cheers,