It seems that the argument between Kennedy and Manjoo is mostly about statistics, especially the statistics in the DNC report. For example, the survey in the DNC report used approximately 1000 respondants. With a measure of 2 or 3% described as not-voting due to long waits -- with a standard statistical error of +/-3% -- the survey in the DNC report is hardly the final answer.

Glenn:

Boy are you right. I read Cliff May's response to the e-mails from Salon readers and checked only one of his poll numbers which he presented as a Time's poll, done in March, that states: About one-third (32%) think that the U.S. should withdraw all troops from Iraq in the next 12 months whatever happens in Iraq.

This is one response of three possible responses and when the numbers for all three responses are shown the picture is exactly opposite of what Mr. May wants to show:

"Only 3-in-10 (28%) Americans agree with President Bush that the U.S. should keep troops in Iraq for as long as needed until the Iraqi people can handle the situation themselves.

Most other Americans favor setting deadlines for withdrawal:

A little more than one-third (36%) think that the U.S. should set sliding deadlines for withdrawing most troops by August 31, 2008 with the withdrawal schedule depending on the Iraqi government's progress in training its forces and bringing stability to Iraq,

About one-third (32%) think that the U.S. should withdraw all troops from Iraq in the next 12 months whatever happens in Iraq."

So, this poll which Mr. May suggests supports his position actually strongly supports the opposite position -- Less than 1/3 of American's believe the U.S. should keep troops in Iraq until the job is finished.

Cliff May is full of you know what!

Glenn:

I think Dennis Kucinich (see: http://www.commondreams.org/views06/1201-33.htm) has identified the secret plan that our elected political representatives have settled upon. The Food and Forage Act of 1861 will allow Bush to borrow the funds to run the war until Congress authorizes further funding -- apparently there is no time or amount limit. Therefore, the democrats need not actually deal with funding the troops. They can send as many bills to Bush that call for troop withdrawal and Bush will continually veto these bills. There is no leverage against Bush.

The congressional democrats will need to un-authorize the war with this un-authorization being able to hold-up to a veto. That is the only way to stop the war.

By the way, allowing Bush to have a slush fund, via the Food and Forage Act of 1861, would allow his administration to gorge themselves, to spend money on whatever they want -- no oversight -- nothing. This is a disaster!!

Glenn:

I think Dennis Kucinich (see: http://www.commondreams.org/views06/1201-33.htm) has identified the secret plan that our elected political representatives have settled upon. The Food and Forage Act of 1861 will allow Bush to borrow the funds to run the war until Congress authorizes further funding -- apparently there is no time or amount limit. Therefore, the democrats need not actually deal with funding the troops. They can send as many bills to Bush that call for troop withdrawal and Bush will continually veto these bills. There is no leverage against Bush.

The congressional democrats will need to un-authorize the war with this un-authorization being able to hold-up to a veto. That is the only way to stop the war.

By the way, allowing Bush to have a slush fund, via the Food and Forage Act of 1861, would allow his administration to gorge themselves, to spend money on whatever they want -- no oversight -- nothing. This is a disaster!!

Mr. Silverman is wrong. The late 20th century epidemic of outsourcing has nothing to do with improvements in communication or transportation. Furthermore, there have always been desperate people in the world who would work for less than Americans.

In the early 20th century transportation and communications were just fine for global business. The telegraph and teletype machine were quite adequate. Shipping, powered by wind or steam, also met all requirements for supporting profitable and large international commerce.

The biggest difference between today and one hundred years ago is TARIFFS. In the 19th century, and the early 20th the US government nearly totally funded itself on tariffs - today there are no tariffs. Tariffs equalized competition between nations making local labor and overseas labor equivalent. With tariffs there may be good reasons to outsource overseas: superior technology or higher craftmanship, but not lower wages.

There is a political dimension to this. Bush and the GOP are in a free-fall. Many of their supporters are tired and ready for a change.

By taunting the Democratic Congress and starting a fight, and if Congress accepts the challenge, this would provide a rallying point for support which would only invigorate the GOP base.

If Congress does not act then the Congressional Democrats would be shown as meek and timid, infuriating their base.

Very Rovian.