i enjoyed your discussion but found myself very frustrated with Wilentz. He, as a Clinton supporter not as a historian, kept wanting "race" and voting to be construed more broadly to include black and white people voting for obama _just_ because he is black. whatever. that is a canard. the problem isn't white and black people voting for obama because he is black. (both white and black voters have both voted for and supported white candidates at all levels of politics.) the problem is white people who would never vote for a black person under any circumstances. the two situations are very different and one should remember that hillary started out with the kind of huge support that the black community came to give obama. it wasn't automatic racial identity politics.

as far as hard working white people, as clinton put it, her appeal was to aggrieved white rage. culture and race are not neat categories; they are inextricably linked. true appalachia was unionist during the civil war, that has nothing to do with racial suspicion. when people rail against affirmative action and an over-reaching judiciary, isn't that quite often a not too subtle race-baiting, even if grievances maybe real? the southern strategy and the republican sweep of the south exploited this culture/racial divisons and the clintons in pa, w va, and ky pushed all of the culture buttons to separate groups--hard working white people vs everyone else. it is shocking that such george wallace tactics get traction nowadays. and despite Wilentz' efforts, history will not judge her campaign kindly.

i was glad to hear hillary endorse obama today but i don't think she went far enough. she needed to say he won fair and square. she needed to address and attempt to squelch all the sleazy rumors that exist out there about obama (and, unfortunately, her campaign nursed) regarding his religion, his patriotism, and all of the coded and non-coded messages out there that "he ain't one of us" whether it be elitism or elitism because he is an educated black man with an exotic name. obama has much work to do to firmly establish his life story as a shining example of the american dream lived (and I think hillary for noting this) and he must continue telling it as he quite often does. i was glad hillary spoke about sexism. i only wish she had done so about racism beyond platitudes about the civil rights movement. she needed to connect the historic civil rights movement to now and that for her voters to turn and support obama makes them a chain in the link that connects that history to today and the future. she really needed to state in unequivocal terms, that the modern democratic party does not have room within its broad tent for racists or haters of any kind. that it is not the party of only hard-working white folks.

i would have also appreciated a nod to the 18 million voters who voted against her and for obama. she and her surrogates have condescendingly ridiculed us as naive cult-followers. for all of the vitriol expressed here by hillary voters towards obama, the candidate nor any of his surrogates ever derided her voters.

the photo identifying the members is crazily wrong. it should be, left to right, benny, frida, anna, and bjorn.

i agree with almost everything said, especially joan, but i have to quibble a bit with her. not to defend john edwards, but when he said he had no idea who that baby was, he was referring to the fuzzy photo in the enquirer of a man that was supposed to be edwards holding a baby that was suppose to be hunter's. he denies that that that there exists a photo of he and hunter's baby and suggested that the picture was either created with actors or was photoshopped. he was not referring to hunter's baby specifically but the baby in the photo when he said what he said.

point of correction: the tire gauge stunt came from mccain's campaign not obama's. obama, citing expert opinion, suggested that keeping their engines tuned and tires inflated was a concrete step americans could do to get better gas mileage and save fuel. mccain tried to push this truism as the total obama energy package, hence the tire gauge. like most of things mccain does, he retracted what he said and tire to make like he had agreed with the idea all along.

i do see what camille is saying about symbols but i think john mccain's made a mistake on this issue and that's why he had to retract. the reason being beyond the fact the obama was right about this is that every normal person who takes care of their own car and pumps their own gas also knows that it is true. mccain and his advisors showed themselves to be stereotypical country club republicans who are at odds not just with the greenies but also with the nascar set.

it is obvious to me that elizabeth did not fully know about the affair until john's run-in with the paparazzi and escape to the men's room. i'm sure she heard the rumors and even confronted him, but believed his denials. bob schieffer spoke to her right after this story broke inot the msm on friday and stated that she was "devastated". why would she be devastated if she has known for 2 years? i think she fudged on the timeline to save face in this public humiliation.