... makes me very grateful for the sanity of tomreedtoon.

For those of you who propose sanctions on the employers, remember it's not just big corporations employing these people to bring cheap chicken to your table and change your dirty hotel sheets. Small construction companies couldn't make it in this country - and you couldn't have those nice retaining walls and that $400,000 5 bed 4.5 bath house in the burbs without illegal Latin American labor making it affordable for you.

Also, those of you who are whining that if you are against "illegals" quit driving over the speed limit are missing the point that our legal system has degrees of punishment designed to fit the crime (or should in theory).

The fact of the matter is that these people did come here illegally. That can't be changed or justified. Who cares how your ancestors got here (mine got here on a boat about 400 years ago, I assume legally at the time). Laws have changed since 1890,and current law is the only one that counts today.

As a previous poster pointed out, I can't run down the streets of Mexico demanding my rights when legally I don't have any BECAUSE I AM NOT A LEGAL RESIDENT OF MEXICO!

However, since we enjoy our little suburban boxes and our cheap antibiotics ridden meat and our retaining walls, since we do in fact have 12,000,000 people that need to be dealt with somehow, something has to be done. I don't support blanket amnesty but I don't support kicking out everyone as well.

I know a young "illegal" Mexican married to a real, live American citizen, daughter and granddaughter of real live pasty white American citizens. The couple has two kids. he can't get "legal" without leaving his young wife and children here for two years. She is American and really doesn't want to live in Mexican poverty for two years, so they stay underground. What's the solution for them?

How many of you on either side actually know any "illegals", Mexican or otherwise? Makes it harder to judge- and to know what side of the issue you are on - when you look in someone's eyes or see their kids.

...actually REQUIRES landscape workers to be paid nearly $30 an hour?? I have a feeling your friends weren't keeping all that money saved for themselves but actually shaving some of the cost of the job off so they could compete. Sorry, but I speak from years of experience and I know that kind of work is not worth $30 an hour. On the other hand $5 is way too low and speaks poorly of your friend's character; he could have easily paid more than $5 but less than $30 and still done well. The boom in the construction industry where I live means even illegal workers can make decent wages on construction crews and it's even more competitive with crews defecting to the Gulf Coast after the hurricane.

A friend with a small construction company recently tried to hire some American workers through the labor board and ads in the newspaper. He does hard labor and though he received about 100 applications, he found about 5 people he could hire. Most of the applicants had criminal records for things like rape, child molestation and armed robbery. He later lost all of the employees he hired after they saw the type of work involved in the jobs, or because they were late or calling in sick constantly. He was paying sightly above the standard local wage for employees with no experience-around $13 an hour. Point of this is that he has consistently tried to hire Americans and consistenty got slapped in the face. His Mexican workers make $15-20 an hour and he would give anything if they weren't "illegal" and even paid for attorneys to try and figure out how to help a couple of them.

I know another employer to paid for an illegal Guatemalian worker's kidney surgery because he couldn't purchase healthcare for him.

The point of both of my posts is that there are no easy answers here and no way to generalize. I stand by the fact that many small companies can't make it without these people; you don't hear about them because they are not the extreme. American workers may want those jobs when they pay ridiculous amounts - and $30 for unskilled labor is ridiculous considering people with multiple degrees or skilled job training can't always make that much. But I don't think American workers necessarily WANT those jobs.

Also, west coast and upper east coast housing prices don't necessarily reflect those for the 200,000,000 of us in between.

... I think the Buffy should always go to Buffy. Or Angel. No matter how long since they went off the air. TV so good and addictive was never so unloved. I am stuck with only DVDs and the comic of S8 to get me through.