But when you advocate bombing my people, members of my family, my friends, etc., and when you tell me that my whole existence is a lie thought up by Arabs to annoy Israelis, then yes I take it personally. I've had these conversations over and over and I've realized one thing; the people proposing such things aren't interested in peace, they aren't interested in resolution. They like to fight, and they like it when the repurcussions of that fight have nothing to do with them. They like to advocate physical violence against you without mediation or diplomacy, but they want you to have a civil conversation with them as they do it.

Well, I'm sorry and I ask no one to agree with me or back me up. Its obviously not anti-semitism (I don't even know if you're Jewish), but if someone is looking me in the eye and telling me that its a good idea to kill me or my father or others like us when there are bombs falling on Palestine, I'm going to knock their teeth out.

I'm happy to hear that you speak with Jews. You must have me confused with someone else, as you did once before, because I never said, nor would I say, any of the things you accuse me of above. My position, as stated several times in the past couple of days, is that:

• This is a situation where two peoples aspire to a homeland, and each has valid arguments
• The primary difference between them is that most Palestinians would prefer not to accept a state that does not include all of the current Jewish state - that is, unless Israel is destroyed
• I disagree with the current incursion into Gaza, not because I don't believe Israel has the right to defend itself against rockets, but because I think it is counter-productive

Which of these positions makes you wish to knock my teeth out? Or perhaps I said something else you can point to as the reason for your aggressive statements against me?

Thanks, it's nice to be celebrated, if only here.

Have you, by the way?

Glenn is a brilliant guy, or I wouldn't be here, but he is nothing if not shrill.

In every instance, you excuse Israeli movement restrictions and attacks, because Palestinians are horrible "terrorists" who "keep themselves destitute" to get media attention, while they attack defenseless Israel. You are the worst form of coward.

I thought I was stating a simple, demonstrable fact. Can you point to any example of a Palestinian leader's ever doing anything about economic development? There's plenty of money in the Arab world, and the US too, for that matter. As far as I can tell, Hamas only cares about destroying Israel.

So I gather you disagree - how does this make me a coward?

I believe I have already apologized for being impolite when I was attacked ad hominem; and if I have been impolite in any other circumstance, then I apologize doubly.

-- zenwick

Please stop your fucking whining.

If you want Miss Manners Rules, I would suggest that you find another place to post.

You're free to leave whenever you want and if you believe you are being mistreated, then perhaps you should strongly consider either leaving or attempt to determine why people are climbing on your bones.

Your arguments are shit and they are being described as shit.

That, my friend, is why you don't seem to be making any headway.

That, and that alone.

Ah, Jebbie. You were one of the few here yesterday who seemed like a worthy debater. Too bad.

... and I've decided you're right. This is a waste of my time. I was looking for a place where interesting ideas can be debated and issues can be discussed. What's here, unfortunately, is a mob: a self-congratulatory, closed-minded exercise in mutual mental masturbation. So long, wankers. Enjoy yourselves.

Joan, congratulations. You did a heroic job. You were the gladiator who is supposed to die for the amusement of the mob, but who triumphs over the beast instead.

Unfortunately, just like the Roman Coliseum, going on Fox News means participating in the lowest form of entertainment ever devised by humans.

Ah, the Great American Pioneer West, home of the self-possessed but only partly-civilized barbarian; and devil take the hindmost. In civilized countries that have been around a longer while than we have, folks have gotten the hang of living and working together. I hold great hopes that we will too, someday.

We should consider hiring Orly Taitz as Special Prosecutor. The only difference between Madame Taitz and Kenneth Starr is the accent.

I was convinced by the Frontline program a few years back. In September 2001, the military had no contingency plans for Afghanistan, but the CIA (having spent the 1980's camped out there) had plenty. Therefore CIA was put in charge of catching bin Laden. Rumsfeld, aghast, vowed to his deputies that he was damned if bin Laden was going to be taken down without DOD being in charge of the action, and told Tommy Franks not to do squat without a certified set of Army invasion plans.

Rumsfeld was the guy who let bun Laden go. Bush was just a dummy listening to Rummy.