Why not let an employer know that if they can't be honest, if they can't obey the law, and aren't going to treat you with respect, you don't want the job? If they continue to earn the disrespect of the American public at the rate they're earning it now, their business isn't going to last long anyway. Madame Defarge is knitting again.

I sympathize with your sentiment. However, when the bank sends you a foreclosure warning, your creditors are hounding you on the phone, you have to choose between paying for food or heat, etc., most people will grovel for the paycheck.

That is one of the worst things about our system, and capitalism in general IMHO - the personal costs of defiance or revolt are so high. Keeping your dignity means going hungry.

Yeah? But if the paycheck isn't coming no matter what you do, you might as well save yourselves the money on the SSRI's by telling these predatory corpies to shove it, no? I've heard that a good catharsis is calming and rights one's mood.

Catharsis is great. But if you know you're not getting the job, why are you even bothering to apply in the first place? Presumably you apply for a job because you hope to actually get hired, not to talk truth to power. If you want peace of mind, don't go on an interview. I find them terribly stressful.

The rest of your post sounds like you agree with me that the system punishes what should be rewarded, i.e., citizen participation and expressing your real opinions.

Because to not apply is not possible. When one doesn't have a job, that's what one does. Within a sentence or two on some interviews, you know where it's heading. You know that because they don't hire your kind. But you can't even think of not applying, then you'd have nothing to apply for.

How is it a protest to tell them off once you know you're not getting the job? During the time you still think you might get the job, that's when it makes sense to grovel. It's easy to tell someone to shove it after they've rejected you. Lots of folks do that already.

If we're going to start fighting for our freedoms again in this country, people will have to get fired.

Exactly. I think most people would consider losing their job to fight for their freedoms a high price to pay. It might well be worth it, but the evidence shows lots of people choose to simply go along to get their paycheck.

If things get really bad, that might change. If you don't think there are any jobs anyway, then you have nothing to lose by protesting. I don't think we've reached that point yet, but it may be coming. That's perhaps one positive thing that could come out of this whole economic mess.

Because I walk into the interview with my head held high. If they don't like it, what I've learned is, I wouldn't be getting the job anyway

Everyone likes to hire someone with self-confidence (head held high). That's not the problem. The problem is when they ask you about your age, and you tell them you're going to report them for age discrimination. That's probably not going to go over well.

Anyway, you've got me confused. You've argued during this thread that the jobs aren't there, so who cares? At other times, you've said to let 'em have it once you realize the interview is blown.

If the jobs aren't there to begin with, or if you have no shot, then why interview at all?

If the jobs are available, and you think you do have a shot at getting them, then groveling to get the job is a rational strategy if you just want a paycheck.

I sympathize with the view that people should maintain their dignity, and if everyone did it things would be better. But everyone does not do it. The threat of unemployment is enough, in practice, to make most people grovel, or at least hold their nose and do what they think they need to, even if it's fake, to land and keep a job.

Hi DC.

Regarding your response to Che Pasa:

I don't dispute that there have been some victories in recent years.

However, when taking a bird's eye view, warrantless surveillance is still taking place and people are still being rendered and tortured. There are many, many examples of the most cruel and horrible travesties of justice being inflicted on people, many of them innocent.

And this has been going on for what, 6-7 years now? And while it's still early, it does not appear that Obama will put a stop to it.

From that perspective, I have to agree with Che, it's broken.

As for trying to correct the system, that's a worthy goal. I agree we should keep trying. But even folks who are not as pessimistic as I am might look at the recent history and start to wonder about the odds of success. Even if success is achieved, it might take so long that the current victims will be old and gray.

If that ends up being the case, the system will have failed those victims utterly and completely. In fact, some of them are most likely already beyond repair, given what they've suffered through.

I see you beat me to the punch. And did a better job, to boot.

In retrospect, I wish I hadn't embarked upon this particular line of discussion.

I'm sorry if I upset you by keeping at it.

Changes of this sort, if they're going to happen at all, are only going to happen gradually and incrementally

This might be true, but why do you think it _IS_ true?