OK, I can't resist. One last post, then you can have the last word if you like.

Oil has been running out since we first found it - yet we always seem to find more and more.

Oil consumption has been greater than new discoveries for 2 decades now. We burn 4 barrels for every new barrel we find. Not sustainable.

The Ozone depletion was going to kill us back in the 80s or 90s (I forget) ... where did that go? The leviathan deficit has been poised to crush us since what - like 1800? Bird flu, nuclear war, sars, aids, asteroids (really popular back a while ago), the list goes on and on ... and on and on.

All potential disasters. Nukes could still destroy the planet, and there is always the potential for a major epidemic. Those things are different in kind though, since they are only possible, not inevitable.

Today the world is the more peaceful it has ever been. Life spans are the longest, food is the most plentiful, education and information is the easiest to access, travel cheap and easy, energy plentiful ... and like the big threats out there .. the list of great things also goes on and on ... and on and on.

So what? Die-off always occurs after an irruption, a large increase in population (and/or living standards). That's how resources are exhausted in the first place. I'd recommend taking a nice Carribean vacation while the opportunity still exists.

I have nothing against 'modern science' just like I would have had nothing against it when it held that the universe was composed of 4 essential elements, or the time it figured that the earth was the center of the universe and was flat or the time that it assumed that atoms were the indivisible building blocks of nature.

Of course we need to take care of the environment, and of course there are always 'DANGERS' lurking out there just around the corner waiting to mutilate un in the worst imaginable fashion - story at 6! But just because we as humans evolved in a brutal environment the conditioned us to have gut wrenching emotional reactions of fear to the 'boogey man in the dark' doesn't mean that I have let the same monkey brain conditioning guide our assessment to the situation we currently find ourselves in.

Its always been something. Oil has been running out since we first found it - yet we always seem to find more and more. The Ozone depletion was going to kill us back in the 80s or 90s (I forget) ... where did that go? The leviathan deficit has been poised to crush us since what - like 1800? Bird flu, nuclear war, sars, aids, asteroids (really popular back a while ago), the list goes on and on ... and on and on.

Today the world is the more peaceful it has ever been. Life spans are the longest, food is the most plentiful, education and information is the easiest to access, travel cheap and easy, energy plentiful ... and like the big threats out there .. the list of great things also goes on and on ... and on and on.

So ... in my continued quest to civility and tolerance for other points of view I invite everyone to do a little introspection. Ask yourselves what you really, REALLY know ... how balanced your points of view really are. And then ... think again! Haha ... you might be surprised what would happen if you think to yourselves for a second ... what if I AM wrong.

I've been wrong about plenty of things in my life, but I'm not wrong about this (see my proposed bet).

A good example of "the system being irrevocably corrupted" argument can be found in Chris Hedges' (not to be confused with Hitchens) column on Truthdig today entitled "It’s Not Going to Be OK". He's basically resigned to the “fact” America as we know it is over, so lets wait until the apes get here and rename NYC the Forbidden Zone... People seem to be outdoing themselves in seeing who can predict the most dire, irrevocable outcome to the current economic clusterfuck.

Whatever - the facts are the facts, and the facts say the future is (almost certainly) grim. The planet will warm whether or not you are optimistic.

Glenn was talking about the differences between the two parties, anyway. I agree and disagree. Of course there are differences. The question is whether or not they are merely cosmetic. The answer depends on the issue at stake.

Will it make a difference in your tax rates? Yes. In whether or not there is massive lawbreaking a la Bush? Yes. So, differences, and meaningful ones.

Will either party save us from climate change? No. Will either party dismantle capitalism and work towards a sustainable economy? No. So, no difference.