Almost every policy dispute in America boils down to people wanting to obtain “The Good” and disagreeing on how to do that. The first step in discussion, rather than argument, is to realize the common ground we all share. -- heru-ur

That would be nice if that were actually the case. Modern day conservatives don't want "the good" for the most people possible. They want the good for the privileged few. They want the good for the mythical free market. They want whatever it is that will keep them in power to achieve their selfish goals. Nearly everything they say and all that they do proves that fact. You are simply ascribing motives and goals that do not exist within the modern conservative movement. And, in the process, you aid them. Until people see them for who and what they are, they will be able to get away with their plan. Stop aiding them please.

Finally, I get it. It's not even about political or corporate power alone. It's tribal. It is about an elite who simply think that their "group" should be above the law.

Thank you, Glenn Greenwald. One sentence said it all for me.

And now, I feel very, very chilled. To the bone. It's about classism. There is the elite, and then there is the rest of us, the disposable slave class. -- AKA Smith

Lol... I am sincerely glad that you see it now and I am glad Glenn is finally recognizing the severity of the predicament we are in. So... er...ummm.... what are we prepared to do about it? Write letters? Make phone calls on the networks of the companies that are helping to spy on us? Buy a few ads in the establishment rags that serve and protect the elite? Vote for establishment candidates? Go shopping? Do those still seem like good ideas?

Now that your eyes are open, what do you recommend we do?

Specifically, on this issue, people are plainly not getting as excited as we are about deceit and compromise of constitutional principle. My hunch, which I suspect could be verified historically, is that a majority of people only get angry about government surveillance when it becomes a clear and present threat to them and to their democracy as they live it. So the most useful thing we could do now would be to envision and publicize scenarios where the new powers being granted to the government become a threat to law abiding Americans, and not merely, as we are being told, to terrorists. While our opponents will likely counter that our scare stories could never come to pass, getting them out there will prime the pump of public understanding so that when our fears are inevitably realized, the public will recognize them for what they are. -- gadgiiberibimba

How do we do that?

I wonder what would have become of the civil rights movement if MLK Jr. had had a blog?

Bystander, I don't think you love that letter as much as I do. Okay, I shouldn't say that, cuz I don't really know. But isn't it wonderful? All you got to do is read it, and you can see it all. Right down to the tint on the windows.

-- Derbig Mooser

I know this is going to sound rich coming from me (as well as arrogant to her) but come on Derbig, lay off. She isn't shooter. She is (or was) at least open to learning. You want her to come around or not?

Amity says:

-- ramoncreager

Amity is at it again eh? You've been had Ramon.

Good thing nobody can dig up any of mine! It saves me so much (well-deserved) embarrassment.

-- Derbig Mooser

If everyone had your wit, good sense and self-deprecating sense of humor, this world would be a much better place.

@adnoto

Did I get so worked up that I got had? Hmmm. Better go sailing and cool off.

-- ramoncreager

Not following you. I think we are missing each other here. Amity's post was satire. That was what I meant about you being had. But, maybe you realize that now and that is what you meant.

Either way, sorry for the confusion.

What I'm asking of all these clever people here, is this: What is the limit? When do we as progressives say, okay, you got us. This government is no longer a democracy. Has that point passed already? -- AronBlue

Aron, America was never a Democracy.

We are a representative republic in which the representatives no longer (if they ever really did) represent the people. The better question then is: "What are we prepared to do now that we know our government is no longer for the people or the constitution?"

I think my whole foot is now in the water, so I'll tell Mr. Greenwald that I really appreciate all the work he puts into this blog. I learn a lot every time from his posts and from many of you. Thanks! -- gpjones

Welcome to the fiddlers' asylum. Enjoy your stay.

http://tinyurl.com/63wm2y

Seriously, what can we do other than some of the things Glenn recommends? I know you recommend direct action but I have to feel a sort of personal vendetta to think of murder. (It is a wonder that my ex is alive.) Political acting out in a violent way is not my style. I just can't get emotional about it. -- AKA Smith

This had better be some lame assed attempt at a joke. Murder? You cannot be for real. Is that what you think "direct action" entails? Ever heard of the civil rights movement? Ever heard of Gandhi? Is that what Abbie Hoffman and the multitudes of DFH's did in the 60's-70's? They were generally violent and carried out personal vendetta assassinations? Are you out of your god-damned mind?

God I hope you are attempting to be funny.