Barack "L.O.T.E."* Obama can KISS MY ASS!

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/06/obama_on_fisa_telecom_immunity.php

or click sig

*Lesser of Two Evils

-- bamage

A police state isn't far behind. Why doesn't some asshole just introduce an amendment to change the wording of the fucking oath of office already? I am so sick and tired of hearing about "security." Bunch of fucking sniveling wussies. Let's just get it over with already.

I do solemnly swear to protect and defend the security of the Corporate States of America.....

When you are given the choice of two dictatorially minded people, you choose the one that you think will allow you the time and resources to try and preserve the Republic. -- souriscriant

Not if you have any principles you don't. Not if you are interested in long term change you don't. We have had all the time we have needed to begin saving the republic. At least seven and a half years worth. What have we the people done to save the republic? What has been accomplished? What's going to happen after you and the rest of the Kos kids get your man elected? Back to the coma of the Clinton years would be my guess. The vote and hopers will have done what they perceive to be their job. You aren't going to gain people for the fight. You are going to lose people.

ah yes

The mythic "center" strikes again. Yet again, it bears a striking resemblance to unadulterated Republican policies and objectives.

Only Democrats need to "move to the middle." Republicans are permitted by the media (and their own party) to act "on principle" and give the finger to Democratic goals as much as they like.

Of course. -- DCLaw1

Is it only the Republicans and the media that expect the Democrats to move to the middle? From what I have witnessed, most of the electorate that makes up the Democratic Party believes it is necessary also. Read many comments here or head over to Daily Kos and see the vast majority of commenters defending an unprincipled centrist point of view.... "Obama is just doing what is necessary in order to get elected and we should still vote for him."

I have no way of backing this up but it is my belief that the majority of Americans would best be described as authoritarian center right and most democrats are already part of that "middle." Lack of principles, ignorance, jingoism, and American exceptionalism are prevalent in democrats too. So what are "Democratic goals?" When you wrote that did you actually mean "give the finger to left-libertarian goals?"

I will vow to:

a) Never contribute to your campaign

b) Stay home or at least not vote for a presidential candidate

c) Not work for or contribute time to this candidate -- Pinky

Just a suggestion but why not write in Kucinich (or other principled candidate of your choice) instead? It won't change anything but, if enough people do likewise, it would at least serve a purpose, no? And stating that intention on Obama's web site at least gives him and others a chance to compare him to someone like Kucinich. It would further highlight Obama's flaws.

perhaps now is not the time for pointless gestures.

-- souriscriant

Continually voting for the lesser of two evils and expecting a different outcome is a pointless gesture. You may come to realize that 20 years from now (if we last that long) when nothing has changed but I am doubting it. I am guessing you will still be calling for us to do more of the same... "All we need is a few more! The lesser of two evils is our only option!" There have been people advocating that position and saying just such nonsense for decades. Where are we now?

Tell us souriscriant, how long will we have to suffer your incrementalism before we see change? 10 more years? 20 more? 50? If you would be so kind, would you please give us a rough estimate as to when voting for the lesser of two evils in a corrupted system will bear fruit?

"The bill has changed. So I don't think the security threats have changed, I think the security threats are similar. My view on FISA has always been that the issue of the phone companies per se is not one that overrides the security interests of the American people." -- Barack Obama

All security, all the time.

Shorter BO: You don't have a rule of law and civil liberties if you are dead.

I don't have to, because I have seen the LAST 40 years of what a difference it has made to have a Nixon, a Reagan, a Bush I or a Bush II compared to a Carter or even a Republican-lite like Clinton. -- souriscriant

You don't have to what? You don't have to give us a guess as to a time frame for your plan because you have seen what the past forty years of voting for the lesser of two evils and what that has brought us? You are undermining your own argument and you sound like the wing-nuts who, when asked when we might be able to get out of Iraq, give a diatribe on how swell everything has gone. Yours is just the other side of the coin but still clueless.

Whatever. You are ducking the question. Fine I didn't expect you to have an answer.