The steps might not read exactly like this to everyone, but in general: 1) Defeat the most corrupt offenders, 2) Support worthwhile candidates with truly progressive motives who have your interests at heart, 3) Immediately upon election, introduce good legislation, all while simultaneously 4) Constantly expanding grass and net roots efforts at geometric rates to overcome and overwhelm current corrupt officeholders so that good legislation not written by corporations comes to the floor and is voted on, 5) rinse and repeat. -- Intercooler

The more and better fantasy again...

Tell us Intercooler. How long do you figure before we see "substantive change?" There is the 2008 election and then, what? How many election cycles before we see substantive change? 10 years worth? 20? 40? Give us your best estimate and then, if you have the time, please give your thoughts on the following:

The problem is systemic...

More and better politicians of any stripe are not the answer for two simple reasons. First, we will never be able to elect enough of them in any given election to affect substantive change in the short term. It will not happen and everyone knows that. The results of the 2006 election go a long way toward proving ths fact.

Secondly, because we can not elect enough of them this round, those that we are successful in electing into the current gamed system will either be compromised and/or marginalized by the time we are able add to their number with even "more and better." It is truly a "one step forward, two steps back" approach that leaves us farther behind at every turn.

Now will some of you consider getting the Greens and/or Libertarians over the 5% threshold? -- Ouroboros

I will be writing in Kucinich for Pres. but, in all other cases, I will support and vote for Green candidates.

I haven't read your links yet (I will though) so I am not sure what specifically brought your question on but it has recently (past 8 years) been my wish that Feingold and Kucinich and any other true left-libertarian types would leave the Democratic party and either join the Greens or form their own party. The way I see it, they don't really fit in with the Democratic party or its agenda anymore.

The Democratic party is now just the other side of the Republican coin. How could they not be with "leaders" like Pelosi, Reid, Hoyer, Obama and Clinton? I do not like adding Obama to that list because I think the jury is still out on him to a certain extent but his actions, or inaction, over the past few days would seem to indicate that he fits.

Adnoto

You insist that "more and better democrats" is laughable because I guess you think that will never happen. Or at least not in time to get us out of this mess. But your solution is the Green Party? You think the Green Party is going to grow to powerful proportions in the next year or two and save our asses? -- Kitt

No Kitt, my solution is not the Green party. I was merely noting what I wished for in terms of shaking up the current two party system. Those thoughts have nothing to do with what I think we as citizens should be doing to stop the unrelenting march of the authoritarians. No party... no plan for more and better politicians of any sort will ultimately prevail by itself. Because it is the corporatist system that is in charge... because it is that system that determines things like this telecom amnesty legislation, if we truly want substantive change away from that, we as citizens are going to have to force the issue at some point, no matter who is ruling us. We see that everyday. It is once again being proven before our eyes as I write this. That is my point.

You see Intercooler's response there? He won't address my questions because he can't. Because he doesn't know how to. He sees the point and doesn't know how to defend his position in light of it. So, he goes on the attack. Normally I would engage but I am tired of arguing with hopeless people. I would rather just let viewers to the comments see both positions and decide for themselves which seems more accurate.

Listen, my goal here is not to be the ultimate pessimist. I am just pointing out the incontrovertible flaws in the "more and better" plan. I am not in this simply to demean the the current efforts (though, admittedly, I do do that from time to time out of frustration). Go back and read my letters over the past few days. Read my discussion with bamage. People are hearing a lot of nonsense that will get us no where in the long term. I am merely trrying to wake people up to that fact.