We should not call these guys Conservatives -- we should call them Radicals and Neocons and relabel the Republican Party the Radical Party.

-- MacK..

MacK - for the love of all that is holy my friend - how is what you just said any different than what Jonah Goldberg, Styne, Will, etc. etc. are now saying/going to say? They no longer want BushCo to be identified as conservative and neither do you?? What is so deeply ingrained in the American psyche that we simply can not call a spade a spade and realize that it is conservatism that is the problem, not some mythical, radical offshoot of it?? Why are you willing to allow them an out? I will say it one last time. Who voted for these people? Who will vote for their likeness in the future (over and over again)?? Bullshit they were "duped." They were duped in 2004?? WHO VOTED FOR BUSH IN 2004? If none of the "true conservatives" did then their must have been a hell of a lot of liberals that voted him into office. They were not duped. They voted who they are.

This is insane.

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These Guys Are BETTER Than The Old Conservatives? Oh, REALLY??? -- PR

I know, it is unbelievable. Smart, rational, decent people are going to allow them to persist. You can see it plain as day in this thread. This is perhaps the most depressing thread I have read in quite some time.

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Hell I am willing to say I am conservative when it comes to upholding the rule of law, the good old Geneva Convention, the 4th Amendment, the perogatives of Congress to investigate the Executive, Separation of Powers, Roe v. Wade, Paper Ballots (as opposed to Diebold), etc., habeas corpus, etc.

-- MacK..

It must be a magical word this word "conservative." We have people clinging to it and incorrectly ascribing positive positions to it. Let me ask you a question their MacK - What the hell are the "liberal" positions to those issues you have listed above?? Is it "liberals" that consistently ignore the rule of law? Do liberals think the 4th amendment should be done away with? Liberals must be the ones that want to throw out Habeas Corpus and.... why do liberals hate all that is good?

What is it about the term conservative that is so appealing? Especially when "conservatives" have been the ones destroying the country in every way listed above? Why do you cling to it and misrepresent conservative positions?? I really do not understand.

Conservative is WHAT IT DOES and what it has done is damn near destroy this country. "Conservative" should be a curse word by now not something we want to describe ourselves as.

It is just a word MacK. Let it go and help to destroy it before those that can't/won't let it go end up destroying us.

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I said (sarcastically): Why do liberals hate all that is good?

MacK replies: They don't, but they try less to require people to be "good," "straight," "sexually conventional," of a fixed religion. I suppose that makes them enemies of the "good"

Ok. I was working under the assumption that MacK wasn't a complete waste of time. I now see that I was very wrong.

I see now... it is a bad thing that liberals try less to require (or perhaps even legislate?) people to be good, straight and of a fixed religion! This is a bad thing and makes liberals the enemies of "good." Er...umm. I thought one of the tenets of "true conservatism" was staying out of other people's business if at all possible. Much like their lies about wanting government to be smaller and stay out of our business. LIES!

You go ahead and ignore the fact that it is conservatives that fund, support and vote for people like BushCo. If it calls itself a conservative and acts like a conservative and for years and years 95% of the god-damned self-described conservatives support it and defend it as conservative THEN IT IS A FUCKING CONSERVATIVE. And you are a fool if you believe otherwise.

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Unless the U.S. electorate had been prepared to renounce its political irresponsibility and had been able to assert its authority through the Constitution over its government, the democratic authority of the people would inevitably be supplanted by one that is corporatist and totalitarian. The U.S. electorate, as we have seen, was in no way so prepared, and now that government of the people, by the people, and for the people has perished from this earth. Militaristic corporatism has subverted the greatest democracy in the world, and has the will and the means to make that subversion permanent, and to extend it to other countries by coercion, fraud, and force.

Post lux tenebras

-- walter_map

Bingo. Walter, who the hell wrote that last bit (and why have I not yet read him/her)? Would you provide a link to the original text/post please? Or tell me what it is from so I can read up? Thanks.

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The parade of nutbars continues

From bucky1 to wally_map...

-- L.W.M.

Bucky, perhaps. Walter, not a chance. Well, unless you consider harsh language and sticking the truth in the faces of those that would rather not see it as nutbar-ish. Read his other "letters." I did and it was quite illuminating. I found precisely two things I disagreed with. His defense of the ATF at Waco and my assumptions as to where he stands on gun ownership and the second amendment. Otherwise his rhetoric and outrage are perfectly tuned IMO. But I can understand why you don't like him. IIRC, you still believe that America is "a pretty great place."