Oh, and doubledave - this country has come back from worse. -- BigTuna

What the heck are you talking about? What could you possibly be comparing the current situation to? We may make an economic comeback but we have never been in this bad of a position politically before. Never.

This is exactly what I was referring to in my last post. This willingness to forget everything once people perceive that "things are looking up."

I've come of the opinion as of late that we have a system of government that is almost architected to avoid the unpleasantries of discovery and accountability, and thus destined to reap perpetual malfeasance because of it.

...

If you couple this with a tacit acceptance of an extra-societal ruling-class, then it ought to be no wonder why accountability and politics don't intersect frequently. -- naschbac

I didn't say this specifically (and probably wouldn't have said it as well as you have) primarily because I assume most intelligent people understand this already. Perhaps not. Either way, it shouldn't be an excuse to stick our heads in the sand and avoid our responsibilities as citizens just because we perceive that "things are looking up." The ruling class will not check themselves. We are going to have to do it and until we do, we will be stuck with the government and politicians we deserve.

Given the reception my message garners, even among supposed "liberals", I seriously doubt there is any hope of salvaging a free nation from the dregs of freedom we have left. Even "liberals" don't really care that our nation has become the largest incarcerator of human beings on the planet, and even "liberals" make jokes about prisoners not dropping the soap in the shower.

The black male canary of freedom in our coal mine has long since expired.. The rest of us will follow suit sooner or later.-- Aycharaych

Yes. Thank you... I know we have been traveling down this road for quite some time. I will assume you were lecturing for effect so that others, who are less well versed, might benefit.

McCain AND Obama - THAT's the ticket!

Add this middle-aged male GOPer, active in his party, to the list urging McCain to invite Obama to be his Veep if Team Billary steals - that's the only way they can get it now - the nomination. The Master and The Apprentice, a solid, unifying team that will benefit America best! -- Herb Spencer

Permalink Tuesday, February 26, 2008 01:39 PM

This must be snark, correct? Because, as we all know, Herb is a liberal.

Voter X, who has had no significant control over or input into how the two (and only two) candidates are placed before him, finds neither acceptable, and does not vote.

That the political process Voter X was born into gives him insufficient choice is his fault, and is due to his fussy "righteousness". It is never the fault of the process which he has no control over.-- casual_observer

I agree that that particular argument is bullshit but, isn't it ultimately still "his" fault. Is this a nation of, by and for the people or not? If it isn't then let's stop claiming it is and live life accordingly. If it is then we have a duty to change that "process," to wrest control of it back from those who pervert it, by any means necessary, no? And, since the process/system, as it has been gamed, is the hindrance to fixing the problem, it necessarily means that it cannot be done by "working within the system." What if the founders had tried working within the system that they faced in order to attempt to achieve their goals? Wouldn't they have been at fault?

I am of the belief that we are in this predicament simply because we refuse to do anything about it. Therefore it is his, yours and mine...our fault. People are just unwilling to do what is necessary and are more comfortable deluding themselves.

I think rights are like muscles---they need to be exercised regularly. If we threw out our presidents---I mean, on their asses, sometimes with jail time---once every 20 or 30 years, we might actually get enough practice at it to be good at it. And you wouldn't get the eye-roll from the MSM every time you mention mere impeachment.

The last good chance we had was with Nixon. Somebody go spit on Ford's grave for me, please. -- Baldie McEagle

Which is why I included Ford on my list. Most people would say "Hey, wait a minute! Ford didn't do anything to warrant impeachment." Hell yes he did. He should have been impeached for the pardon.

Also, just to revisit part of naschbac's post that I wanted to comment earlier on but didn't...

The consensus attitude becomes one of a waiting game. If we ignore the problem long enough it will go away on its own, because we can eventually elect someone else.

You can get all the supposed benefits of forced removal, an opportunity to democratically select a replacement, and all you have to do is hold your nose for a while. -- naschbac

Though I think naschbac is right on target wrt the way some people think, this is, to me, the most disgusting aspect of it all. The fact that by "holding our noses" and not forcibly removing a murderous thug like George Bush, we show our true contempt for representative forms of government and our fellow man located "out there" in the rest of the world. I mean it isn't as though BushCo is only shitting on the constitution and the American people after all. There is the little matter of an illegal and immoral war, based on lies, where there have been possibly 1,000,000+ people killed for oil. This is what happens when we "hold our nose" and wait for the likes of Obama. It is just sickening.