Now that we have established that Joe the plumber is a liar who is not a plumber you can stop. The damn fool owes $1200 in back taxes and has liens. No bank is going to lend money to that man in this environment. No way. He just lied.

The Toledo Blade pretty much destroyed his credibility.

I'm tired of liars and those who defend them.

Mr. Wurzelbacher said he objects to Mr. Obama’s plans to raise income taxes on incomes above $250,000. He said he makes no where near that much money but he would not say how much he makes or if he ever expects to make $250,000. Court records from a divorce show Mr. Wurzelbacher made $40,000 in 2006.

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081016/NEWS09/810160418

Anything else?

After the idiots in California with that racist food stamp, you need to just shut the heck up about Joe the Plumber being slimed. He was outed as a liar. Putting Obama's head on a food stamp surrounded by chicken, ribs, and kool aid is sliming.

Just stop. You all are just done now. The cali group has just ended any pretense that this stuff is rational. Joe the plumber doesn't make enough money to even get a loan to buy that business. He's a liar.

Elephantman comes in here and tries to make Palin the victim? After evry stereotype in the world? And this group is getting reprimanded from the state GOP- they are under it's supervision and the state office is teed.

The real problem is that they got caught. What have they gotten away with before this moment?

McCain owes Lewis a big apology. I won't hold my breath.

The worst were the two black women who feel so betrayed. What did they expect? They thought they were different and special?They have been associating with people who see them as inferior and were just using them. Welcome to the world, ladies.

I need some chocolate now.

Well, that explains it. I am a sucker for a SUperman joke.

If davedude is offended, he needs to participate in regime change in Washington. Time to threaten some reps. But yelling about this doesn't add to the case. Yelling about the AIG craziness does. Where were you last week when that should have been getting more attention?

Eisenhower kept the peace through strength. Kennedy put the world in constant peril through his disastrous novice judgment at the Bay of Pigs, and his ill advised Vienna summit. I respect Kennedy for recovering, and being a fast learner, but it was perilous all the same.

Eisenhower started us on the road to Vietnam with MAAG. He also started the planning and execution for the Bay of Pigs. His "Massive Retaliation" was a failure, and that failure was underlined by the Czech Crisis. U2 Crisis? Little Rock, which came from him dithering istead of cleaning Faubus's clock? All deliberate speed? Well. Eisenhower did want universal health care.

JFK inherited the Bay of Pigs. But his handling of the October Crisis was masterful. His dealing with LeMay were also nuanced and intelligent. The Vienna SUmmit was not ill advised... it paved the way for Nixon. His handling of the Diems was not masterful, but Eisenhower put those asses in power, not Kennedy. His "brushfires" strategy made sense, as did his "Flexible Response". While he had to be shamed into moving on Civil Rights (Ole Miss came from him dithering instead of kicking Ross Barnett's ass for inciting riot and ordering in enough marshalls and troops 6 hours earlier), he cut the capital gains tax and began the process of moving us out of the recession that Eisenhower fought.

You can't just say "Republican good, Democrat bad. It doesn't work that way. The facts on the ground don't fit that. I can go on. Eisenhower should have cut off that waste of money Joe "couldn't find a communist in Red Square" McCarthy, but lacked the courage necessary to do so until his beloved Army was in the venal distractobat's sight.

I suggest you read Ted Morgan's Reds. ANd Millett and Maslowski's For the Common Defense.

One can be a "Christian" (ie, believe in the divinity of Christ) and still not walk the walk (do unto others, etc). These are called "bad Christians," and they are frightfully common.

I'm just weird. I think if you just give lip service (or eye service) you aren't. I find myself becoming more Gospel/Acts centric, and less tolerant of the "lowest common denominator". I think if a person does not "walk the walk" and acts judgementally they can not claim the title.

Perhaps it's because I am so aware of my shortcomings. I say that I try to be a Christian. What tees me off are people who are not even trying and who use the title like a bat to bludgeon people.

I like how CS Lewis argues that if you do good in any creators name, Aslan will take it as his. If you do bad in Aslan's name, the other took it. I see these "cultural Christians" as doing bad.

I don't actually disagree with your argument. I think those people are wrong to be so high and mighty.