But, IF the Left were finally to acknowledge the murder aspect of abortion, we might be able actually have the other part of the conversation: the part about the basic Human Right of not having the State telling anyone what to do with their bodies.

I do not think that the Left is ready for a mature and vigorous discussion, and I think Obama's obnoxious lecture at Notre Dame proves it.

--VirginiaL

Actually, the proper terms would be "self-defense" or "killing". Killing is allowed in self-defense and defense of others. Placing it in those terms makes it a whole different ball game.

The fact that you don't know the difference between self-defense and murder, or plain killing and murder, makes me think that you are the one who is not ready for a vigorous debate.

I found housing and college money for a pregnant student last week. By doing that, I did more to prevent abortion than any of the protestors ever has or will. THAT's the debate we need to have.

If he wanted to stay married he'd do it. He's waffling because he can and because he doesn't want to stay married. I love Cary, but this guy needed a kick in the head, not an excuse to waffle more. Either stay married or get divorced. Waffling is evil and selfish. And don't pretend to be thinking about the kids. The kids don't mean diddly squat here, or it would also be a simple "I'm staying married."

I also smell an affair. "She doesn't inspire passion" is so passive. So what? Marriage is not based on passion, it is based on commitment. The LW has no commitment to this marriage. Let the poor woman go.

If LW refuses to choose, I hope his wife will take that as a "no" and will file. No person should have to live with a person who is not 100% committed and wanting to be there. Here "I don't know" means "no". If he meant yes, he wouldn't need the deadline.

If he's this passive about this, I'll bet he's passive about other stuff as well. He'll also nitpick her as his dissatifaction comes out. That's very common with passive and passive aggressive people who won't commit or make decisions. They try to get others to do the dirty work or the heavy lifting.

I feel for the wife.

I think that speaks volumes for how representative the fundies are in my church.

Most of us know the history of our church. Vaccinations, etc were all denounced at first . Most of us separate the community of believers (the church of the Gospels; the true Catholic church) from the clericalist hierarchy (far less important than fundies want you to believe- the Church is the body of believers coming together to worship, and salvation is not mediated by the Pope, according to Vatican II. Jesus said that where you are gathered in my name, I am there. In the gathering is the church. The Pope is not the church.) When Jesus's word contradicts the clerics, or when Jesus is silent, it is acceptable to follow conscience (funny how the traditionalists always reject the Catholic conscience, yet Vatican II doctrine enshrines it). Often the Catholic conscience has run far ahead of the clerics (the American Civil Rights movement is a big example of a huge moral failure in the clerics, where the laity had to lead the clerics to racial equality.)

So I do not trust these people. I have a Catholic education. I know my catechism. They have betrayed our trust before, with the scandal. When they scream and cry instead of using church money to support single mothers so that they would not feel the need to abort, I have trouble finding them serious. Put the church's money where it's mouth is. If we don't want abortions, use Catholic money (not Catholic Charities- I mean all of that money the church raises for anti-abortion politicking and Operation Rescue) to support single mothers, get them education, housing and stipend, so that they can support their children and still follow their dreams. Protect life while taking care of the poor. Persuade instead of coerce. That, for me, is being a true Catholic, not trying to change the laws or telling people they need to listen to the Pope. Talk is cheap, action is dear. So to the trolls who will come out saying "follow all of your church's rules"- fuck off. I know what is the core of my religion, and what is just human power seeking. You don't get to define Catholicism for me. Not even the Pope gets to do that. The Gospels are the heart of the church. They define Catholicism. And they don't talk about birth control or abortion at all.

What did they change the thug into if he's not a Muslim assasin? That's a bit plot point (yeah, I read it too). That set of assasins has always done the RC's dirty work- it was important to the final unveiling (and pointed out the real villian before page 20). I hope they didn't make him a Nazi.