When I am out in public, I observe many examples of children whose parents don't even attempt to discipline them. Little kids don't seem to know that it's possible to run without STOMPING (or that there are places where they shouldn't be running in the first place)--and I've observed this behavior equally in girls and boys. I have ALSO observed parents who are TRYING to discipline their kids, only to have their kids tune them out. (I observed this behavior in my neighborhood Target store the other day, and I went over to the child [a boy, in this case], stood over him, and said, "[slowly, with a clearly authoritative tone] Your mother is calling you. She's asked you to go with her. Go to your mother. Now. Listen to your mother. [pointing in her direction] Go to her. Now." The mother looked oh-so-grateful to get backup from a complete stranger. We really shouldn't need "a village to raise a child." But, in at least those few extra-stubborn cases, apparently we DO.)

The biggest problem with kids-in-general is that they (both the girls and the boys) behave as if they're operating under a paradigm of "the world is my playground." They're definitely unclear on the concept of "limits." But is the problem entirely due to "sucky" parents? In some cases, I get the feeling that some of them never tried and that some of them have thrown their hands up in despair after being unable to find any discipline method that works, and that they've stopped trying. From where I stand, it appears as if the influence of kids' age cohorts is at least as powerful as the parents; influence. In other words, it seems as if many kids want to do whatever they observe other kids doing, and their parents' influence (assuming that the parents have put in any effort at ALL) just goes right out the proverbial window.

Most of my age peers (now in our 50s) are parents. And many of them are/were as you have described (in my generation, their kids now are grown or almost-grown). I know of one case of a conscientious mother whose son was still in diapers at age 6 (and whose entry into the first grade was delayed for that reason)--in the case of that child, both of his parents worked full-time, but he had a very good nanny (who was an old friend of their family). Her sons are both teens now, and, although they're highly-intelligent, they seem to be socially-backwards ('though not troublemakers-- more like borderline-autistic, perhaps). I don't have a sense that her sons would have turned out any "better" if my friend had been a full-time SAHM (or if her husband had stayed home with the kids, for that matter). My own niece was raised rather-more-laxly and was in daycare from infancy, and she took until age 4 to potty-train because she LIKED wearing diapers (she'd lie on her back, lift her legs, and announce, "I've pooped! Change me!") She had a lifelong "mom-as-friend-not-parent,", and, other than--as is the case with her female friends (one of whom will be an unwed mom in a few months)--behaving as if her brains have turned to liquid and have run out of her ear-holes when she's around boys, she seems to have turned out OK...but she IS spoiled and materialistic to an extreme. Another of my age cohorts had her one child at age 17 and was thrilled to become a grandmother at age 32 (no additional comment is necessary when it comes to examples like THAT one!).

Were things better in the "good old days"? I honestly don't know. I know that I would have hated living in those "good old days," and I might have ended up being a lonely old outcast due to my non-conformity. Or maybe I would have been lucky, and I would have found a like-minded mate, who knows? In my parent's generation--as I said in a prior post--it was allowed, and considered to be normal behavior, for boys to work out their "pecking order" through fistfights at recess. Parents hit--even beat--screamed at, and belittled their kids to discipline them. When my parents were grown and were new parents, Dr. Spock told them to discipline their kids using reasoning and respect. In my own parents' view, this didn't work and it "ruined" my own generation of age cohorts, because it allowed us to hold the uncomfortably-radical notion that we didn't have to conform. --And the struggle for individual expression vs. "the good of society as a whole" continues on today.

Back to the subject at hand:

DO parents "suck"?

IMO, some definitely do. Many parents have "sucky" kids, seemingly through no fault of their own. Many kids don't "suck," even though they might have "sucky" parents. I've observed too many variables on the theme to feel confident with making a generalization as to "what's wrong with kids/parents today."

I'll second that assessment. Watching "The West Wing" has always felt like watching a typical Barbra Streisand film: Her characters are always super-intelligent, witty, feisty, and strong-willed, and she demonstrates these qualities through rapid-fire dialog, talking circles around every other character. I don't exactly HATE this sort of thing, but it's rather exhausting to try to follow it closely.