blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy

ye have heard that it hat been said, An eye for and eye, and a tooth for a tooth; But I say unto you, That resist not evil: but whoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also

...but I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you....

...judge not that ye be not judged...

and why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes or thorns, or figs of thistles?

Douglas Adams?

lol

my apologies

on one hand i think your questions are fair

on the other, i think the meme that Obama is all hype is an invented talking point

he's not the most experienced politician, but he's a pretty accomplished guy

he has opposed the Iraq war from the beginning; told African American churches that anti-gay bigotry is not cool; is great on women's issues; told the Big 3 automakers that we must increase gas mileage.

his legislative accomplishments are on the record

I agree with Karen 22 and those who point to Samantha Power to say that human rights will indeed be a hugely important part of his foreign policy

but yes, sometimes small steps are necessary

you've obviously got a mind of your own, though, and are going to use it ;)

peace also

Show us how it's done...list some specific Green policies that you would be happy if Obama adopted

"Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve the seed of our father."

After God destroys Sodom and Gomorrah, and turns Lot's wife into a pillar of salt, Lot and his daughters have drinks and do the work of continuing his lineage.

Genesis also tells us that before the Fall, the Garden of Eden contained all animals, but none ate flesh. Even the tigers, I guess, where vegans.

I bring this up not to mock Christianity (though I'm kind of agnostic, I think there's all kinds of wisdom in many spiritual systems), but to point out that there are dangers in insisting upong a strict literalist interpretation of something written when people still thought the earth was flat.

Thanks, Ouroboros! I appreciate the dialogue... I agree that there's a big mess to clean up the Repubs will try to blame the Dems.

Still, some people are a lot more optimistic than me about just how bad a McCain Presidency (NeoCon Agenda part II) could be.

I don't wanna sound like an absolute alarmist, but just look around now--the realities are pretty grim, and McCain is poised to compound them.

that's the spirit! do you have kids? ;)

maybe it's just shocking to me because it's pretty clear that the Bush administration has really, really, really hurt the country

-the economy

-U.S. reputation in the world

-balance of powers all out of whack; Executive Branch with too much power and actually claiming to be above the law

-Civil Liberties

-in short, they've pushed the notion that government should be bottom-up (from the people) rather than top-down (to the people from their rulers)

-starting a war for oil rather than investing in green energy

And it seems pretty clear that McCain (despite stylistic attempts at distinction) will be essentially a continuation of the same policies.

And Obama, whether you find him personally appealing or not, wants to restore the consitution, the country.

about voting for third parties: I agree philosophically with voting one's conscience, and yes, I hope the Green party continues to grow, but don't think it's an exaggeration to say that if McCain is elected things will likely get much worse before they get better. Have you read the Patriot Act lately? We're in a real constutional crisis here.

as for the wizened elders contemplating just sitting home out of pure petulance/spite, you can call me presumptuous if you want, but voting is a civic duty, and your decision will affect all of us

if the Greatest Generation could defeat Hitler (thanks!), and if U.S. troops are still dying in droves today, surely y'all can get past rudeness and hurt feelings of some Obama supporters...

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/08/60minutes/main3475200.shtml

Or the Frontline episode "Growing Up Online?"

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/kidsonline/

Neither focuses squarely on the culture clash between generations, but both touch on it. (Morely Safer perhaps more than he intended to lol).

I see, you're coming from the "even social liberals can be Imperialists" school of thought.

http://www.johnpilger.com/page.asp?partid=471

I've read Chomsky too, and can understand why someone like Nader would argue that both parties are Establishments corrupted by money, and colluding to prevent any third/fouth/fifth parties from getting any voice.

That said, while Obama may be too moderate for ya ;), I tend to think his brand of governenance—grass roots, with tranparency and accountability—will move us all toward a society where we have a greater say about what is done in our names.