If if fails (tempted to say when it fails, but you never know).. maybe this will be the final death knell for big paid content.

No, silly person. I asked *you* for sources because you're not a primary source. The people posting about their lives in Massachusetts are. I'd still like to hear from someone who's gone through the process, but frankly the uniformity of the descriptions is pretty convincing. Whoever thought up the idea of fining anyone who isn't covered the full year was clever, if evil.

Good digging.

The first link I consider generally useless, as it fails to prove its premise, instead citing the study that found costs only increased $88M.

The second is questionable, as it didn't target the people who actually use the state option, just "MA voters". How do they know they're talking to informed people? Etc.

The last link, however, sheds some light on why those costs only went up a little. If the hospital is to be believed and the state has simply refused to pay bills (by changing rules on how much they consider reasonable), the state cannot reasonably claim they have a working insurance program.

That side of the story is missing from Andrew's story. I still don't know the truth here, but it seems like more work ought to be done to pull all the threads together before the comments section dissolves into a food fight.

It's entirely possible that by hammering down the payouts, hospitals will be forced to only run tests and give care that is actually necessary (instead of padding their bills with extra stuff that isn't, like (anecdotal) colonoscopies for terminal heart disease patients).

It'd be nice to hear from people who actually have used the program, or who have more links.

TYVM.. reading now. I was sure someone out there had already done enough research to be able to point out the right places to look.

Go ahead, call names. I note you didn't bother to post any form of reference, either. I'll happily grant I'm uninformed about the MA public option. You see.. that's why I asked for references (links). Rocket science, I know.

You should post some form of documentation to back up those claims.

Yes, I'm bad at arithmetic. Five billion was more like the right estimate. So. Fifty billion. Iraqistan..

And we're talking a billion dollars or so, total cost. Hell, be generous. Ten billion. That's still hundreds of times cheaper than Iraqistan.

Did you switch jobs after getting a nose job? I've always wondered about that.

Our manipulation of ourselves and our genes (and those of pretty much every life form around us) will be so rapid as to make evolution nothing more than faint background noise. For those of you that think genetic engineering is unwise or wrong.. how do you imagine you can stop everyone in the world from doing it? Every country? Those who do it will have a comparative advantage, like steroids in baseball.. and then everyone will have to do it. Totally inevitable.

People who believe they can pay someone to help them make more money have cognitive issues though. This applies to "education", "investing", or the various self-help seminars appearing at a Holiday Inn near you.

If you seek out a mate who, by virtue of luck or industry has ended up with attractive attributes.. you'll at least reap the benefits of luck or industry. That's not bad!

Agreed. When I went back and reviewed some of KO's work (with which I wasn't terribly familiar) I was struck by how different his handling of this situation was. The only factor that could explain it (IMO) is his personal stake.

Therefore nothing he says in regard to this issue can be taken seriously. I don't care about court evidenciary rules. Courts do things the way they do out of a desire to create consent, not find truth-- as long as people can agree on some standard, a court will be happy. Since I'm concerned with what is really true, I can't realistically trust anything the man says regarding this issue, and ultimately that's why I took issue with Glenn's claim that his statement "proved" Glenn's source's claim.

I'd still like some more insight into how this went down inside MSNBC, from somebody. It'd be useful to know exactly what type and depth of falsehood KO's willing to tell in support of his job.

Like the contents of your mind, your genetic code (to the extent you can keep it concealed) is your business. What matters is what you show the world. Anyone combining their code with yours to produce children has to take their lumps as far as surprises go.

This is akin to the abortion debate in my mind: woman's body, woman's choice. Doesn't matter that a man was involved in putting the fetus there.

In particular, the fact that his statements (especially including the statement about the Tiller business) so thoroughly contradict one another as to be meaningless.

So, I concluded you can't use anything the man says about this to prove anything, since his words are garbage. Is that not logical?

Exactly! I do believe he was probably ordered, asked, whatever, to lay off Fox. I don't believe he implicated himself or his bosses with his gobbling.