If Obama thinks he can get by without the votes of those who follow the FISA issue, who unequivocally believe it eviscerates the rule of law,

It shits all over the rule of law. They might as well give Gordon Liddy and the Watergate felons retroactive immunity, too. This bill sets a precedent: If the President tells you to do something illegal, you do it and you will never be punished for it. Someone who would vote for such a measure, or is too cowardly to try to stop it cannot be trusted with holding a government office. I guess if Blackwater's thugs shoot a bunch of people in the US, they can buy retroactive immunity, too.

who are willing to let McCain win over their own (principled) stand.

The rule of law and Constitution come first. If that means Obama loses, tough. This isn't a game where you try to win a trophy. It's a matter of liberty vs. fascism and call me old-fashioned, but I'm against fascism. You are obviously willing to live under it so long as the person in the White House has a "D" in front of his or her name.

BTW, as an aside, I think the belief that this episode exemplifies Obama "not having the guts to stand up to the Republitards" is a serious mis-reading of the situation.

Only to those who neither read nor write plain English. He's the equivalent of a receiver in football who drops a ball because he thinks he's going to get hit. The problem is, once the other side sees he's a coward, they will make it a point to hit him harder and harder because they know he's yellow and nobody wants to be shown up by a known coward.

I am sorry if you feel betrayed

Don't patronize me.

and like I said, I am disappointed by his statement. But your means do not achieve your ends.

Sure they do. If enough people tell Obama's fundraisers to drop dead because of FISA, and if enough White Flag Democrats like Hoyer et al get primaried next time around, they can either learn a lesson or be defeated. Either they'll quit fighting tooth and nail against their own constituents while bending over and spreading for the Republitards, or they can be harassed and/or defeated. They pull this nonsense because there is no punishment. So I'm going to do what I can to punish them.

I am disappointed in Obama's statement, but I am neither so pollyanish to believe that he is above making politically expedient calculations nor so cynical to believe he's abandoning the Constitution.

But in point of fact, he IS throwing the Constitution under the bus.

Much to the dismay of many posters here, myself included I guess, Obama doesn't need them (us).

Good, I won't be voting for him.

The likelihood that the passion for ethical behavior and Constitutional fidelity that drives them to the polls to vote for anyone capable of beating McCain, could be overwhelmed by Obama's equivocating on FISA is low.

Try me.

I would guess that the number of those that would actually give up on Obama are insignificant. (Which isn't to say YOU shouldn't vote on your principles.)

If I wanted to vote for someone who is willing to bend over for Dubya, I could have had Joe Lieberman back in 2004.

So, what are the ends for which you are able to sacrifice the sanctity of your means?

Here's a hint: If someone doesn't have the guts to stand up to the Republitards now, when the GOP is led by a sadistic retard with a 25% approval rating, they aren't going to say no to them next January. If they don't have the nerve to stand up for something during the election they won't muster the courage on Inauguration Day. I voted for Obama in the primaries and was an Obama delegate at my state's convention and after seeing this display of cowardice, I am truly ashamed.

If Obama thinks he can get by without the votes of people who believe in the rule of law, fine. That's what he'll have to do.

It's bad enough that he turned yellow and decided to back this bill. He had to smear shit in my face with his patronizing little statement. If he wins the White House, it will be without my vote. I cannot and will not support someone who is too craven to stop police state measures. If I wanted someone who would knuckle under to Bush I would have supported Lieberman.

All he had to do was mention at one of his pep rallies how this bill rapes our privacy and freedoms, and that would have been the end of it.

I'll be waiting for the announcement.

Don't hold your breath. I have a better chance of getting a threesome with Jessica Biel and Madeline Zima.

These sniveling cowards and crooks should no longer be called "Blue Dog" Democrats. They should be called WHITE FLAG Democrats.

People like Fred Hiatt are the scum of the earth. Their definition of "bipartisan" is giving the Republitard Fascists everything they want and groveling while doing so.

We need to primary these crooked, gutless wankers -the sooner the better.

You couldn't be more of a troll if you lurked under bridges and molested goats.

What am I going to do about these scumbag Democrats who give the Republitards whatever they want? Let's see...

I'll withold my money and my vote from any candidate who doesn't try to stop this bill. I already told a DNC cold caller to fuck off when they asked me for money. Not one more dime from me. I'll also make it a point to support primary challengers against douche nozzles like Hoyer and Barrow and those other ball-free assholes.