Did I whine, EllaDC? I'm so sorry. I wasn't talking about sexism in that segment, John Harwood and the whole panel really was laughing about how Obama kicked the left in the teeth on FISA, is moving to the center on handguns and other issues, and it's a good thing, because he doesn't need voters like me in San Francisco. Ha ha ha!! I did say, "I vote too," EllaDC, because I think Obama needs an excited progressive base. I didn't want to hear him talk that way about CeliainSF or doloresflower, my sisters in SF, either. I'm sorry if I whined -- that is an awfully sexist term, EllaDC. Sorry to whine again.

But if you're happy to have your vote dismissed or taken for granted, enjoy it! Or maybe civil liberties and handgun control aren't your thing.

Wes Clark was awesome tonight on Dan Abrams, btw.

libertyson, I don't support him, particularly, for VP. But given the number of people who've now been thrown under the bus and can't be VP, maybe we have to be more careful about throwing Democrats under the bus.

Wes Clark was a hugely important Democratic surrogate in 2006, according to Vote Vets. Even if Obama couldn't find a way to stand up for him, I hope he doesn't go away.

Emasculating dog whistle? Wow.

Thanks, Faulkner Jr., I appreciate that. I just watched CNN, where, even after this entire day of debate, they still only showed the truncated clip of Clark -- not what Schieffer said that led him into that quote! (And taken on its own, it sounds like a kind of random, sarcastic putdown.) It was left to James Carville to look down at his notes and read the entire exchange aloud. It's just unbelievable. By the way, the same CNN segment also included the Aravosis quote, so it's not a stretch to link the two.

rnostbakken, you're normally a better reader than that. I didn't say Obama slammed Clark; I was referring to the MSM outrage-gasm. I was careful to say it was the Obama campaign, not Obama personally, that rejected Obama's remarks, and with a quickness. I saw that today Obama, belatedly, issued some new sort of clarification, but he didn't address how, when and why his spokesman found it necessary to say Obama "of course rejects" Clark's statements during yesterday's witch hunt.

I've spent the last 20 minutes checking in and repeatedly deleting offensive and obscene comments, so I'm closing this thread. Thanks to those who participated in good faith; others might want to check our terms of service, because you're not complying with them. And you know who you are.

Christopher1988, thanks for putting all of that out there, I disagree with pretty much everything you said. But I appreciate your passionate participation on Salon.

I think McCain just looked utterly flummoxed and unready for primetime on the birth control question. I really don't like the ageist stuff, especially with so many people in this thread telling me how elderly I am, but...I am not sure it was age, maybe it was a tough question from his base, the media, that flummoxed him. Either way, he looked like hell. Let's start being honest.

Also: I think he's wrong on Iran: they've been baited by U.S. sponsored uprisings and Israeli military exercises, and they tested some old missiles (and maybe the test photos were doctored, according to news reports today.) I don't think we should be talking about another holocaust. That's crazy talk.

And I really have admired Obama since being bored in Boston in 2004 and thralling to his convention speech, but I've been disappointed in him since last fall, when he failed to vote on that awful amendment to condemn MoveOn (which Clinton opposed) and didn't show up on Kyl-Lieberman (which Clinton supported and which I criticized her for.) I try to take a light touch with all the projection that goes on in this blog thread, but truly: I'm an Obama admirer who very much wants to vote for him. And I hope I'll be able to. But since it's July, and not November, I do occasionally think through other options, and I will continue to.

Of course, every time I think through an option that includes supporting McCain, I can't. And any option that involves not voting or voting for a third party involves supporting McCain, so I probably won't. But since Obama seems to be contesting undecided or independent voters, don't other people think about whether it makes sense to be one of them? I know it's silly, because my name is all over Democratic voter information all over San Francisco, but...isn't the summer for dreaming about what you might do to make your candidate behave correctly? I certainly think so; what about you?

Wow, dterrydraw, I am sincerely sorry you feel that way. Asking people for their input is what I've always done. I am the editor who decided to automate Salon's letters, for the record, and I'm really proud of it. I'm sure it's key to why we've way more than doubled traffic in the last few years. You all are the best audience on the Web and I thank you.

But it saddens me to see people who have issues with me contort themselves into strange messages about the importance of participation. On the other hand, you do have a few friends who feel the same way about me, and you always participate here, so...there is a little bit of mixed-messaging going on. But we're all only human. Thanks for being here, nonetheless.