Thanks, quickstrategy, remember the ratio of lurkers to posters, and know that your smart, passionate arguments will have an impact, even if they don't change the minds of some posters here. I really appreciate your efforts. I think the fact that so many of the Appalachia-defenders here are also Obama supporters, and yet they're still being shouted at by alleged Obama supporters, is really...odd.

Wow, Uncle Fester, that crack is beneath you. Do you think dignity is unimportant? Why are Clinton's supporters beneath respect for so many people here? I've criticized her AUMF vote over and over. I think she'd be winning if she hadn't cast it. Either way, she'd be a better candidate -- and a better person! I absolutely understand opposing her, and supporting Obama. But why are so many otherwise decent people here so unwilling to understand what her candidacy means to many women? Thank God Obama seems to realize it.

The last couple of days, with all the Appalachia hate, have been pretty dispiriting here, I have to say. Again, too many sore winners. Compassion, people. It never backfires.

You know, lateagain, you're awesome, even when I disagree with you. And I don't want to put words in Uncle Fester's mouth, either. My point is: Sure, you can forget about the "dignity" of Clinton's supporters -- at Obama's risk. The point is their dignity more than hers, but of course they're bound.

I say this as someone who came into this campaign ranking the candidates Edwards, Obama, Dodd and then Clinton (I liked Biden too but I didn't trust his motormouth), but who has really grown pissed off (haven't you noticed?) at Clinton's treatment. Sure, heckle me all you want. Call me a Clinton shill all you want. But it's actually the other way around: The heckling and the bad faith arguments here have helped me have more respect for Clinton and her supporters. And I know there are a lot of people -- yes, most of them women -- who feel the way I do. Any Democrat should care about those voters. I believe Obama does. I believe you do, too, lateagain.

Thanks, Uncle Fester, I'm sorry I misread you. And I too fear a fight to the convention, but I don't expect one. I appreciate your clarification and lateagain's attempt to help me see what you really meant.

Oh lord, Uncle Fester, I should go to bed, but I'd rather play "What did lateagain mean?" I think she was saying that Garrison's strategy of just assuming slaveholders (and their supporters) would see the light thanks to his glorious prose was wrong, and Douglass was right that abolitionists would need to a lot more active engagement with people and not just rely on words. So I took that to mean that yes, there is probably more Obama can do to engage with Appalachia. But that could be my projection! lateagain?

Thanks, Tina R., that was interesting.

ljwalker53, I share your pain over people just writing off such a big chunk of the party -- and yes, also writing off people who need the Democratic party. There's always been a strain of elitism among college-town lefty Democrats (I should know; I used to be one), and of course among Nader voters (and yes, some Obama zealots are Nader voters.) The thing is, they've never been on what is almost certainly the winning side. And the sneering sore winner syndrome could change the equation and toss them over to the losing side, hurting Obama and the Democrats. Which is why I care so much about these questions of tone.

libertyson, for what it's worth, I criticized her "hardworking white Americans" comment. And yes, I do recognize you as someone who's slammed the sexism against her and I appreciate that.

lateagain, I know that lots of great feminist women are Obama supporters. I'm not arguing that all women support her. But it's too late to argue with you persuasively about why some of her female supporters are passionate about her. You're a singular woman, and good for you!

Eric Berry, just FYI:

http://letters.salon.com/opinion/feature/2008/05/20/appalachia/permalink/a42eac717829662531da489f95d836a9.html

Please don't come to my blog and call me a liar anymore. If you want to know which Obama supporters give Obama a bad name, you might have to look in the mirror.

Carol, we're just going to have to agree to disagree. I think I've done everything I can to make you see why I feel the way I do about a vocal segment of Obama supporters. Really, just as there's no way, scientifically, to know what percentage of Hillary Clinton's voters are supporting her because of racism, there will probably never be any way for you or I to determine how much of my frustration with Obama supporters is a result of having been called a racist and a liar on my own blog for more than a year. It definitely gets to you. I'm going to try to stay out of here for a while to clear my head. Thanks for all you do to keep everyone honest and playing nice.