And second, and third, fourth fifth and on and on.

One of the myths about Nader is that he somehow catapulted Bush into the White House. As if the Florida votes he got automatically would have gone to Gore.

I don't think so. Florida was a battleground state. A fiercely fought battleground state. Are you saying that the Gore voters were that easily deluded? That doesn't say much either for Gore or for the voters. I think it is far more likely that those voters would have voted for some other third party candidate if Nader had not been pushing so hard there.

The reason I will never forgive Nader is his betrayal of the Green Party. The deal in 2000 was for Nader to limit his campaigning to states that were safe for either side. These were states where voters would feel comfortable voting for the Greens, and that would generate enough votes to get the Green Party over the magical 5% threshold of legitimacy.

But Nader's ego got in the way. He acted as if he truly believed he had a chance to be elected, or at least a chance to be a player in the election. He only campaigned in battleground states. He only campaigned in states where the electorate was least likely to vote for him.

The end result was a 3½% vote for the Green Party. Ralph put Ralph first, and people who trusted him and relied on him were the losers.

Ralph is only about Ralph. That's why you only hear about him every four years.

I don't want him to die, or be injured physically. I want him to suffer ignominy. I want him to live to see his legacy of battling for consumers and for America disappear down the toilet. I want him to live out a long life in shame.

My vote for the Green Party will not be flushing it away completely.

I live in Oklahoma. Obama has a 0% chance of winning this state. Were I to vote for Obama, the vote would count for nothing, as far as electing the president goes.

Yes, I understand it would make some difference in terms of mandate. But if I am going to vote for a mandate, I am going to vote for a mandate I actually believe in.

I have said this before: The Democrats suck. The only way to make the Democrats look good is to compare them to Republicans. How has that Democratic Congress played out since 2006? Pretty poorly, as far as I have seen. Rubber stamping the corporate agenda just as breathlessly as the Republican Congress did in the preceding years.

If I cannot have any direct influence on the outcome of the race, I am certainly not going to line up behind the Democrats merely because they are slightly less odious.

No, a vote for the Green Party is not a wasted vote. It will be thrilling to vote for something I believe in rather than something just slightly less dangerous and disgusting.

The 10000 voters wrongfully purged by Katherine Harris meant way less than Nader's few votes. The fact that there would have been a net difference of about 8000 more votes for Gore sure emphasizes Nader's culpability.

And all those hanging chad ballots, and the ones that were confusing, those pale in comparison to Nader.

Of course, Nader is the reason the Supreme Court ruled along party lines to declare Bush the president.

Yup, you have a strong argument working on your side, blaming Bush on Nader.

Full Disclosure: I voted for Nader in 2000. In Texas. I have since come to revile Nader, and wouldn't vote for him for any office against any opponent.

I am having trouble parsing your post. Are you somehow blaming me for Bush?

I've been volunteering in GOTV efforts every cycle since 2000, and the only people I have less respect for than Nader are his voters who still believe they somehow did this country a favor by trying to stick it to Al Gore and Democrats in 2000.

In 2000 I was a registered member of the Green Party. The Green Party chose Nader as our candidate in order to get the required 5% of the national vote. The understanding with Nader was that he would not do anything to endanger Gore's electoral votes. Nader reneged on that understanding.

I voted for Nader in Texas. Al Gore was never going to carry Texas, under any circumstances. If there had been the slimmest ghost of a chance that Gore could have won there, I would have felt compelled to vote for him, in spite of my Green Party affiliation.

The true members of the Green Party would never have been foolish enough to risk a Bush administration in order to vote for Nader. The Nader voters who were against Gore, would have been against Gore with or without Nader.

Only the Republicans wanted to stick it to Al Gore and the Democrats. Are you too dim to understand that? No one who voted for Nader in order to vote against the Democrats would have voted for Gore if Nader had not been running.

If that is truly what you believe, I certainly have no respect for you.

You conveniently forget that this argument started because somebody here was denying just that.

No, I did not forget. I could not forget, because that somebody was me.

As much as I despise Nader for what he did in 2000, it is pointless and wrong to say that Bush's victory was his fault. Which you have said, explicitly.

2000 WAS Nader's fault. None of us are over it.

While I will admit it is possible that Nader could have turned the tide if he had not campaigned in Florida, I don't believe that. I believe that the majority of people who voted for him would have voted third party anyway, for another candidate. To claim unequivocally that that is the case is unprovable and ignores many other factors that are provable. Factors that I listed, and that you agreed with.