Dammit, T.C., you have the form of someone so intelligent without any of the content. But clearly there's a thinking mind somewhere in there, so I'll give it one last shot.

"But when you discount the potential for anti-Semitic abuse, you are complicit."

But I never did of course, and you will not be able to cite one statement of mine suggesting that I've denied that anti-semites would criticize AIPAC for anti-semitic reasons.

You constructed that strawman because you still can't escape the implications of your argument.

Firstly, I'm having about fifteen conversations, so try to expand your understanding of my responses. If you'd like to just talk one on one, I can be more consistent in directly addressing what you or another person said.

As to your response, the argument that charges of "anti-Semitism" are used to silence do exactly what you say "you" have never said. Fine, maybe you never said it. But the crux of this argument is that anyone who claims there is anti-Semitism at work in some of the AIPAC criticism is simply "stifling debate." Heck, go read FireDogLake. Read Glenn's argument. That's EXACTLY what they're stating.

My argument is this is more complex. Some, like Joementum, do invoke "anti-Semitism" to protect themselves from legit criticism. Others use AIPAC to fuel their grand Zionist conspiracy nonsense.

To legitimately criticize AIPAC you have to not only not inadvertently trip into standard anti-Jewish mythic fairytales of superpower (as we saw in this thread with claims that all politicians are owned by Israel and/or are fighting wars simply for Israel), but you have to be aware of the misuse of criticisms and, if possible, to explicitly clarify your criticism from those mythic power stories that have been so damaging for so long.

You claim you don't want to? Then you're part of the problem. Just like "some of my best friends are black people" has the best of intentions while perpetuating structural racism.

I've spelled everything out. You can disagree. But you can't keep whining that I'm not clear or lying about what I said (in your continued repetition that I'm saying no one can criticize AIPAC, the tedious straw man of straw men in this entire argument).

You cannot say when criticism of AIPAC would be legitimate, or offer any example of legitimate criticism of AIPAC.

Criticizing AIPAC for being wrong on the war. Criticizing AIPAC for lobbying for issues that are bad.

In other words, the same criticisms of any lobbying group. That's what AIPAC can and should be criticized for.

I hate AIPAC. I wouldn't give them money if you put a gun to my head.

But that has nothing to do with anything.

We're talking about those perpetuating the grand myth of hidden Jewish financial control of American government. Something many here claimed was a canard simply meant to silence them (it is not). Others claimed this type of grand myth is either true (it isn't), and that no one ever raises this myth. They do, see Duke, David and a bajillion Nazi websites like jewwatch.com:

http://www.jewwatch.com

Scroll down for "ZIONISM AND AIPAC"

You can find it just above "Jewish Supremacist Lists & The Associations They Dominate" and "Jewish Zionist Soviet Anti-American Spies".

But no matter. I'm sure this is all in my head. I'm just a paranoid.

You also refuse to state whether my harsh criticism of AIPAC is legitimate or not.

You're not the only one I'm responding to here, friend. Pardon me if I don't answer every question. If your ascribe AIPAC as the central hidden force behind America's decision to invade Iraq, then I will absolutely call you out for perpetuating a fiction popular with Anti-Semites. If you criticize AIPAC as a lobbying group wrong on Iraq, well of course. I'd agree with you 100%.

But they're just a lobbying group.

They're not proof positive of the hidden Israeli control of American government. That sort of nonsense is pure anti-Semitic canard, and the stuff of historical horror.

Not only should you be aware of this, it's imperative that you be aware of this. To ignore it or whine that you're being "silenced" is to be complicit.

You appear completely unable to cite a single example, hypothetical or otherwise, of legitimate criticism of AIPAC that doesn't either traffic in anti-semitism or make one a fellow traveler.

How's about a few links that do connect AIPAC conspiracy theories into the grand Zionist Financing Myth? Maybe I can open your eyes just a peep to the larger world you refuse to acknowledge:

How about "Jewish Lobby Stabbing America": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdsnDD-HNpk

Take Our World Back: http://www.takeourworldback.com/zionistcrimes.htm#nineeleven