If every wino, slacker, illegal alien, or other person who has generally made poor choices gets Cadillac health care we will go broke.

If a wino gets a gunshot wound and makes it to the hospital -- that hospital is required by law (and Christian morality!) to save that man's life.

Who pays for his $200,000 worth of life saving surgery?

You do in the form of higher costs.

If a $7/hr worker gets mugged and shot and makes it to the hospital -- will he be able to pay his $200,000 ER bill?

Under a tax based system 95 percent of the American poulation would be paying something into our healthcare system (only the 5 percent unemployed earning NO INCOME would pay nothing).

Under our current system a hugely significant amount of people with jobs and income are defaulting on their hospital bills -- which forces the hospital to raise rates. This explains why you're paying $45 for a single tablet of aspirine during your hospital stay.

Our goal is to protect citizens from going bankrupt, prevent hospitals from going bankrupt (due to people not paying) and to provide equal access to healthcare for all Americans (in other words, you can't be denied chemo because Blue Cross doesn't feel like paying for it).

Taxes are the only fair way to go, the only way to spread the burden to everyone.

The massive number of arrests they make in relation to the population, with all of their attendant fines, penalties, fees, screenings, court mandated programs and whatnot are a HUGE source of revenue to the system.

The problem is people should be fined for breaking the law.

I don't consider it a grave miscarriage of justice if a drunk driver has to pay a fine and the police department "earns" money off of his reckless endngerment of other human beings.

Now compare a DUI to a woman with breast cancer.

If someone went broke because he got aressted on his 3rd DUI -- is that really comparable to a woman going broke just trying to get chemo so she can live another 5 years?

How the police department is paid for makes sense. Everyone pays. Everyone gets equal access regardless of race, religion or FICO score.

I think our hospitals should be run in much the same way.

Really? 80 in a 55 should be an arrest, a $1000 fine, suspension of your license? I can't imagine that kind of system being exploited, can you?

Tell you what - when you put a device in everyone's car to tear gas them and shock them if they break even the slightest law, then I'll be 100% on board with denying the smokers and fat assess any medical care whatsoever.

I said hospitals and healthcare should be financed by taxes the same way our police dept (and fire dept and military) are.

Since our unemployment rate is around 5 percent -- that would mean that 95 percent of Americans would be paying something into our healthcare system (via taxes) and that everyone would have reasonably equal access to medical services and healthcare regardless of race, religion or FICO score. This makes fiscal sense because currently hospitals are sending $200,000 bills to $7/hr workers who will never pay a penny of it. Under a tax-based system they have to pay something. (Double checks math: yup, something is better than nothing).

You argued (if I understood correctly) that the Police Dept is really a "business" and they intentionally arrest people just to make money to meet their budgets. It also sounded like you were saying it was unfair for someone arrested for, say, a DUI to be forced to pay a fine.

I said it seems reasonable and fair to charge someone a fine if they break the law. Breaking the law is a choice, whereas getting MS really isn't.

I also pointed out that you can't compare someone put into financial hardship over a DUI with a woman with breast cancer who lost her house trying to pay for chemo so she can live another few years.

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I'm not really sure what you're trying to say.

Maybe this is one of those roundabout arguments wherein people try to claim that healthcare isn't a "right" and therefore no one is entitled to it?

I've actually heard people make that claim before.

"Show me in the Constitution where it says you have a 'right' to chemotherapy! You don't!"

Maybe McCain or Rudy should actually run on that platform?

"Hi, I'm John McCain. We all know cancer is a consumer choice no different than buying an iPod. My opponents on the left think you should be forced to pay for someone who foolishly gave themselves breast cancer knowing full well they couldn't afford the chemo. As President I'll restore personal responsibility to America. If you can't afford a stroke or MS or Alzheimer's -- then don't give it to yourself. If you can't afford to get sick, then don't. I'm John McCain and I approve this message."