Blaming a coding error is a pathetic canard.

If you believe it, then it means Moody's is incompetent. It appears they would rather appear incompetent than evil or criminal. I can't blame them, it is much harder to send someone to jail for merely being bad at their job.

They seem to have flubbed it up a little when, later, they wanted to keep the ratings higher than the new and improved models suggested.

The thing that boggles the mind is that so many people acted as if Moody's and S&P were trustworthy. How many of these crashes and crises do we need to go through? I can understand the money managers looking for the AAA rating, but for them it is a box needing checked before they collect their next bonus.

One of my investing rules is never to invest in something run by finance guys. The odds are against you unless you are either in the mob or obscenely rich.

Folks tend to confuse preservationists and conservationists. Mieszkowski is pretty obviously a preservationist. That is kinda sad because the only true way to advance a preservationist agenda is to address the problem aka smith pointed out: "too many people".

I know a number of "domesticated" wolves. People may provide them food, clothing and shelter, but wolves are hardly owned. They seem more independent and less communicative (to humans) than cats. They are OK around children. I would be wolf turds if they weren't - as a toddler I thought they were warm, cozy critters and would doze with them.

As for wolf re-introduction, from a hunter/conservationist point of view (mine) it is a good thing. I know my state's primary elk biologist and he spends an amazing amount of time detailing how healthy the elk herds are in wolf territory. Actually, elk herds are increasingly markedly statewide while deer herds are shrinking.

The coyotes, however, are chilling out. Wolves love to kill coyotes. Just as humans tend to not tolerate other top predators, wild wolves don't tolerate other canids. Wolves do not always eat their coyote victims, but happily kill them. Wild wolves also happily kill pet dogs because even a toy poodle is a canid.

Now, would I hunt wolves? If necessary. Wild wolves must be afraid of people. If they aren't, then things can get very bad for both wolves and humans. In the end, it would be worse for the wolves. Hunting seems to be the best way to ensure that wolves fear us.

You're missing a number of points regarding wild wolves. As such, you are addressing symptoms, not causes.

First, most of the pro-wolf people are urbanites who don't really have any skin in the game. Lots of strident opinions and nothing to gain or lose except self esteem. They do more harm then good because their opinions, snobbery, and ignorance are noticed rurally. Limpy is an example. I have no doubt he was targeted by a rural person disgusted by detached and ignorant urbanite wolf lovers who fail to understand that wolves need rural support because that is where humans and wolves intersect.

Second, the anti-hunters have found what they think is a perfect solution to a dilemma. Hunters, human or otherwise, are ecologically necessary. Bring in wolves and you theoretically remove the need for human hunters. It isn't that prey species won't be killed or that they'll have quicker deaths. It's that humans won't be involved. So, it appears to be more about taming other humans than about promoting wolf populations.

In other words, you are arguing about side issues.

You really don't understand critter behavior. More people are aware of coyote traits than wolf ones. Luckily, coyote behavior approximates wolf behavior.

Coyotes don't halt "bad" behavior because they are shot at when eating someone's cocker spaniel. That just teaches them to hide while dining. They halt bad behavior by not being in the vicinity. They are fully capable of learning where to hunt pets and where not to. You can observe similar behavior with free running cats. They avoid some yards and hang out and hunt in others. It is all a matter of where they feel safe.

There has been a rash of coyote attacks on children in CA lately. They attacked because they felt safe doing it. They felt safe because they had not been preyed on by humans. After the attacks, the state went out and killed a few coyotes. A little coyote hunting at the start could have kept those kids whole. Oh - these were suburban incidents. It doesn't just happen to lower caste rural families.

What's so laughable? I have firsthand experience with all three species (wolf/coyote/cat). There are a lot of parallel behaviors based on conditioning, opportunism, and diet. I used those examples so that urbanites might have a frame of reference.

Otherwise, we are more or less in agreement. I really like wolves and I do know what they are. One of the things I know for certain is that humans and wild wolves absolutely can not share a geographic area for long. There will be bloodshed. Domesticated wolves are a different story. I've known enough of those. By known I mean petted, used as foot rests/warmers, napped against, etc.

I do believe wolves can be managed in areas where humans visit. There will still be bloodshed, but it will be limited by the low human population density. That and people might not be as vengeful if they feel they went to the wolves rather than vice versa.

As for coyotes following the deer into the burbs - you're mostly right. The 'yotes would be there anyway, the deer just make it easier. Cougars follow deer more because they aren't the garbage pickers 'yotes are.