Nixon created the EPA. Environmental pillaging seems to have become a GOP theme when Reagan appointed James Watt to be his Secretary of the Interior.

Good point, but slightly off.

Regarding those GPS dongles being dangerous. Many of the commodity GPS chips/receivers are designed to get flakey above certain speeds/altitudes. So, the delivery vehicle would need to be a slowish plane instead of a rocket.

I also find it particularly funny that DoD likes dual use technology (meaning they can buy parts through normal commercial channels) and then gets irate when those same technologies are available through commercial channels.

Another good example is computer CPUs. Lots of them are imported from Taiwan. About 8 years ago, I took delivery of a few dozen and tried to ship them to the UK for installation. Getting a permit was a real chore because they were "defense related." In the end, it was cheaper to have a new box shipped straight from Taiwan to the UK. And that was before "911 911 911!".

If she gets the nod, then the general election becomes a referendum on hilary. If she doesn't, then there is a very good chance it'll be a referendum on bush.

Glenn hints at part of the solution. Instead of being a left wing partisan thumbing your nose at the right wing partisans, engage them. Ask them why they aren't conservative anymore.

I am a conservative and I do use this sort of conversation to get other conservative to see the GOP for what it has become. I use phrases like "Remember when clinton did ... and we were pissed because it was corrupt and violated the bill of rights?" It takes steady, calm, continuous pressure but eventually you can help someone realize that they no longer hold conservative values. The reminder can help them to return to conservative values - and to righteous indignation at the GOP.

On the other hand, you can't change 'em into liberals or progressives. Maybe they will turn democrat for a while though. There is also the chance that a fundie or neocon will discover that they aren't conservative but are republicans.

Another conversation starter I use is: "Ever wonder if the fucking democrats are more conservative than the GOP these days?"

Yes, it works. It isn't one of those immediate gratification things though. When I say calm steady pressure, I'm talking about months and perhaps years. Not that it is time wasted. Engaging someone on that level causes everyone to mature and grow.

It has taken me years of gentle prodding to get my dad to realize he can be an anti bush republican. It took months to get another friend to look at her military age children/grandchildren and see that they are what we're risking and destroying and not necessarily what we're protecting.

Interestingly, if your approach is gentle enough you'll learn that most conservatives really don't like bush. They also tend to believe that civil liberties will be restored by the GOP because of the big government approach of the dems and because of the erosion that happened during clinton's watch.

Sadly, there is also a broad contingent that just plain hates liberals. If you can get the right person to say: "The liberals are protesting and picketing McDonalds demanding more trans fat in the fries" then the haters will buy happy meals in droves.

You can easily get a taste for the haters by reading the salon forums. The haters that post here demonize republicans and conservatives in the same manner. Same words, same ideas, different target. There is little hope except to wait until the embers die down - and don't fan the flames.

I'll meet that nut and raise.

You start well but quickly swerve from engaging to confronting. If your goal is to argue and have your say, then fire away. If your goal is to talk someone off the ledge, then you must risk staying engaged. The risk is that you'll learn some things from the partisan and emerge with a shifted outlook.

Specifically, current examples of government wrong doing would work on a liberal partisan, but that's preaching to the choir. To reach a conservative partisan you have to reach back to the clinton administration, perhaps further depending on the age of the listener.

It's a basic principal of advocacy (and sales) - always tailor the message to the audience. You have to focus on what they will hear, not what you will say.

I know exactly what you mean. Been there, done that. You can agree to disagree on the Iran thing and keep pressure where you can make headway. Spying is a good one. Make it personal: "Do you think their spying on you?" ... "Why not?"

When it comes to attacking other countries, I just tell 'em I'd rather the Saudis were attacked because bin laden and so many of the hijackers are/were Saudi. It isn't a hard point to win. Even neocons tend to agree, but then say it won't happen no matter how justified.

"Deep suspicion of the power of the state coupled with a belief in established institutions and hierarchies"

Please interpret "belief in established institutions and hierarchies" as "don't throw away the baby with the bath water".

For example, I believe in the presidency and in democracy even though it isn't working too well right now. That doesn't mean that I have any faith in the current president. Impeach the bastard and get a new president. Contrast that to a reactionary who might want a tyrant or perhaps no executive at all.