There are plenty of strong states without strong liberal institutions (well-defined property rights, enforceable contracts, civil liberties, independent courts and mediating institutions, etc.)

Wow, I thought those were necessary institutions but I never realized they are liberal. Is this part of the dems shifting to the right? As the repugs move toward totalitarianism, the dems lay claim to the foundations of american democracy.

Sigh. It is a sad day for conservatives when liberals can honestly believe that property rights are a liberal cause.

Nope, I'm not hiding behind the constitution. It looks that way to you 'cause I threw it in your face. You're in bad company. I throw it into republican faces a lot more.

Why don't you address the real issue. You seem to think that people can be sent into the military by their parents. If the draft were reinstated, they could be sent by caveat, but not by other individuals.

If one person can force another person into the military, how is that not slavery?

...richard

They would execute people. Recall the recent execution of the corrupt drug regulating bureaucrat.

The problem with liquidating a company is that the bad actors, people who profited from bad deeds, will walk away and get new corporate gigs. This crap will continue until people, not companies, are held to account.

Conscription is when the state drafts a person into the military.

You are advocating a parent's right to force their offspring to undertake certain labor. That is quite different.

I don't know a better word for it than slavery. Regardless, emotionally charged labeling does not change the nature of your advocacy. Perhaps you can suggest a different term?

OK holly, call it conscription when one person (a parent) forces another individual (adult offspring) to labor (military service) without any right to refuse said labor.

Go ahead and advocate it. I hope you have a living parent to sign you up. Maybe they'll get a recruitment bonus.

I, on the other hand, will defend your right not to go.

drove a a humvee, bled, all that good stuff. Wish you were there.

The draft is an action by the state.

You have been advocating an individual action where one person has no right to refuse labor assigned by another person who is not a state actor.

Do you understand the difference between state action and individual action?

I don't care if you get drafted. Might do you some good. If an individual acting in their own interest throws you onto the bus to basic without your consent, then I have a problem. Then I don't care what you want. You don't deserve protection, but all those kids (probably poor) being zip tied to the door of the recruitment center do.

you say:

I meant liberal as in Adam Smith, not liberal as in Nancy Pelosi. Institutions that preserve liberty are liberal institutions. American "liberals" who attack liberal institutions are autocrats but insist on calling themselves "liberals" when they are in fact illiberal. American conservatives are people who are trying to conserve 19th century Anglo-Protestant liberalism.

Property rights are the foundation of liberalism.

I say: brilliant! You deserve two stars! I'm going use that someday and pretend I came up with it. wish you weren't anonymous.

I'm not wanting Mitt to force his sons to enlist"

We agree. and yes, any that share their father's public beliefs should enlist.

I want to get drafted. I want Laura Bush to get drafted. She and I are women of a similar age. And I want your mother and grandmother to get drafted, if they're alive. After all, they can drive a Humvee. I want all of this because I want the imperialism to end.

I respect that. laura would get fragged pretty quick though. another tilman fable.

As for romney, he has won my contempt. chicken hawk with 5 sons and no soldiers. Five Sons! dickhead makes the bush family look heroic. Driving the big air conditioned camper is beyond sacrifice. It's ... cushy.

Is there a law saying that the same person can't be both a republican candidate and a democrat one? With shit sacks like romney being a top contender, i'd vote for obama or richardson in the repug primary.

It is a kinda good idea. Most republicans currently prefer "none of the above". A democrat really has a chance to win a few republican primaries.

There are two related issues in play here. First, the low turnout. Second, the nearly true notion that a repug must pander to the fundies to win a primary. This tells me that it wouldn't take many voters to outnumber the few fundies that are showing up.

There are a lot of people who plan to vote for "the democrat" in the next election. They don't care which dem. Those people should register republican and vote in repug primaries. After all, the party is in disarray and is ripe to be taken over by a different constituency. Why not by the salonistas?

Does the study account for homosexuality? Of the various gays I know, the guys get around for a whole lot more strange than the gals do.

a man's house is his dungeon. I wonder if they have safe words.

Nothing new here though. Flagellation/torture has been used as a route to the divine for millennia. Recall the titty twister scene in "A Man Called Horse" or all the python toons with monks chanting and swatting themselves? What's good for the gander is good for the goose. (cool, two cliches in one post).