It is not going to get us anywhere. So let’s go back to the issue.

Part of the problem is that I don't think there is an issue.

I think the Democratic party has vetted Obama's credentials. If that wasn't good enough, I'm sure the Republicans tried very hard to find a reason to knock Obama out of the race. Heck, I'll bet Hillary investigated him, too. And let's not forget all of the other people who have money, power and influence who would rather not have Obama as president. Let's also remember that no State of Hawaii official has yet come forward to denounce the blatantly displayed, yet allegedy forged, birth certificate.

The bottom line is that nobody who had a dog in this fight was able to find anything that would disqualify Obama, despite the existence of more-than-ample motivation to do so.

None of the people who have challenged Obama's credentials has presented a single shred of factual evidence to support their doubts. They just got the idea into their heads, perhaps with some right-wing help, that something might be fishy and now they want Obama to disprove their unfounded suspicions.

I personally found and read the section of the U.S. code that pertains to this matter. I posted a link to it earlier in this discussion. AFAICT, where Obama was born isn't even an issue because his mother is a U.S. citizen who apparently satisfies the residency requirements needed to automatically qualify her children as U.S. citizens, even though the father was not a citizen.

Finally, I know there are plenty of people who would like to undermine Obama's presidency. Some of them are the same people who were unable to use the citizenship issue to prevent that presidency. Standard political procedure is to use innuendo and rumor when facts are not available.

So, if you want a chance of convincing me, try presenting some actual facts to lend credence to your suspicions. Show me a reason why Obama should do what you want, other than that you just feel like making him jump hoops. Until then, I'll consider this to be just another failed attempt at swiftboating that has somehow outlived its usefullness.

Now, I am going to make a statement, which may look very odd to you. Don’t you think that it is a responsibility of the party, whose candidate is running for any office, to make sure that absolutely everything is fine, when it comes to the documentation?

Sure, and I also think this was actually done. However, there are some people who aren't satisfied with the result. The exact number of people who really doubt Obama's documentation is an open question. I don't even think we have a believable order-of-magnitude estimate.

I have been told that 400,000 people signed a petition that is related to this question. What I don't know is what the petition actually says. More importantly, I don't know what the people who signed it *thought* it said.

I am reminded of the infamous "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth" flap. There were supposedly many such veterans who expressed outrage at Kerry's alleged behaviour, but it turns out many of them were obviously unable (because of service dates or where they were stationed) to actually witness the events in question. Here's how this works:

1) Ask a lot of people a "Would you be upset if ..." question.

2) Many people respond "Yes, I would"

3) Sleazy poll-taker then presents results as evidence that many people believe the "what if" event actually happened.

I suspect the same kind of trickery may have been used to get those 400,000 petition signatures.

I have also noticed an oddity. When I am reading blogs, I see what appear to be many people who seem to want Obama to "come clean" about his birth certificate. I can't know how many people there really are because it's so easy for one person to post using many different names.

The oddity is that the apparent abundance of Obama-doubters is not reflected in my real-life encounters: I only know two people who seem to actually doubt Obama's credentials, and both of them are avid Rush Limbaugh fans who believe everything Rush tells them.

In summary, I think this "movement" is actually just a small number of people who are using various tricks (including sock puppets and dubious polling) to create a false appearance that their numbers are far larger than they really are.

As a retired Marine, I know the certificate of live birth is not a legal document, and is in fact a forgery.

Please explain. How does being a retired Marine qualify you to make such a statement? Do all Marines receive training in document authentication?

If this is not a sign of arrogance, what is it?

I think it's a sign that Obama knows what he is dealing with: People who won't be satisfied by any evidence he might produce.

The Republicans, who seem to be willing to stoop to any low to win an election, might well hold the presidency today if they had managed to disqualify Obama, but they never even mentioned the issue of Obama's citizenship. Why not? Why aren't they in front of the Supreme Court right now arguing that Obama is not qualified to be president?

The nice thing about the Elvis theory is that you can use it even if Obama produces irrefutable evidence that his birth certificate is genuine. He could have been born anywhere, and the flying saucer could still easily have gotten him to Hawaii in time to get the certificate.