What is that old joke? Man asks a woman to sleep with him for a million bucks and she says yes. Man then asks how about 10 bucks then. She is agast and exclaims "what kind of a woman do you think I am?"

To which he replies, we already established that - we are now just dickering over the price.

Upshotting panties, groping on the street, peeping through windows, rape, all come out of the same place. What differs is the degree, the price.

There were no cell phones with cameras when I was assaulted (for that is what it was, right?) A man that would run in, grab, then run off is the same sort of coward that would shove a camera up my skirt.

As a man, please explain why a man would do this to some random woman on the street? What is the purpose? Obviously, the upskirter and the groper do not see that random woman as a human worthy of respect.

Is that it?

@AKA

I know some people get on these boards just to troll around.

I don't really think Brightstar is one of those but I am totally perplexed why it is so hard for him to understand why people would not like to have their space invaded. And that kind of invasion IS like being used sexually. It is peeping tomism. I have a hard time believing that these men really think it is "okay" and just ill-humoured feminists who object.

The only conclusion I can come to is that to many men, women are not deserving of respect. I have run into these men, obviously from my story. I was VERY young looking as a young adult. I looked about 16 when I was 22. That might have been part of my "asking for it" provocation? I unfortunately was very poor when I moved away from the protection of my family, lived in poor sections, and in other threads have stated I lived in an area of prostitution. It was an eye opener to realise how much hatred of women exists. I was the recipiant of some of that hate and disrespect. If there had been cell phones with cameras at that time, I am sure they would have been used as well.

I see little difference between having a camera shoved up my skirt and being sexually assaulted, except the fear and physical pain would be present in one and not the other. One is a little closer to getting raped than the other - but the both seem on that path.

Little boys look at panties. Little boys expose themselves.

I've been on the subway when a man whipped it out and began to masturbate while staring at me. Not much I could do but hope he stayed put until the next stop. The next time it happened I learned that laughing would get him to move to the far end and leave me alone. I learned that mocking men was a good defence - although it did get me chased a few times. Maybe mockery is what is called for here? Can't chase me down on-line.

Sometimes I wonder why I ever wanted to find some one - given that I had a lot of weird episodes with men. Guess I never thoght they ALL were like that but sometimes reading these posts make me wonder.

They truely make me sadder.

Ah, Brightstar, you should read the article.

It wasn't about women at all. It is about men who are in the hard spot of caretaking and running up to blocks since caring for the young, sick and old is considered women's work.

Getting rid of gender rolls in caretaking would not only help men caring for their elderly, but probably help men caring for their own children as well.

And about child care - one of the things looked at when deciding custodial rights is which parent takes time off of work to tend a sick child. If it is ONLY the mother - then that is taken into effect.

Perhaps in a more feminist society, men would feel more comfortable taking time off of work to care for their sick child - and look more like a primary caretaker should the marriage disintegrate.

The same qualification that you or I have to speak about them.

Don't think they do real harm but don't think they add anything to society or to male-female relationship. They do allow women to extract money from men who want to look at boobies. I guess those things have value.

Christina Augleria and Justin Timberlake are also different from from Britney in that they can sing. Britney is nothing without a lot of production.

That leaves looks. She is not a bad dancer, but has to work at it. It still just leaves her looks. And no matter that she is an attractive young woman, it will never be enough. Christina has and is going through that whole "gotta look stutty hot", but . . . she can sing.

Look what happened to Mariah Carrey - she was an young attractive woman with a unique voice. She too went through this whole identity crisis due to looking hawt. Now she is a 40 year old barbie and doing the same damn thing over and over with her voice.

Britney is largely going to repeat Mariah's path (so far the break down tracks) only without any talent to keep some legitimacy about her. She won't last as long for that reason.

I dislike "Britney" because she was pushed on us, but I do feel sorry for Britney and wish she would find a quieter life and contemplate it for a while. I think she'd be happier.