Do women trash other women? Yeah.

However, my own personal experience is that more men trash women than women trash women. Have I been trashed by women? Yeah - but it has been rare - only one woman. But then I have no interest in a certain type of woman so I am not exposed to as much of that crap as might be around.

But please note that there are a LOT of women who do not compete with other women or feel the need to do so. I just don't see it but then - like I said, I feel nothing in common with women who regard men as a resource. I am just not in that circle. So my opinion of women is based on the majority of women who I get to know and associate with.

I have been trashed by men far more often - and those are the men I've been in relationships with. Funny - strangers will come up in a bar and say "I like your XYZ", but the men you are with are the ones who tell you you XYZ is not up to their expectations. Kind of sad, right? I do know that some of the men meant to throw me off base. The first time it happened (I was very young) it had not occured to me that my "love" was comparing me to other women and I came up short. He liked to do that and passed it off as joking. It was mean but that was what he was. My reaction was not to feel competative with those other women - my reaction was to look in the mirror at my self and wonder if there was something wrong with me, my body, my face. Something I was missing that must be so obvious to others.

Okay - I was very young at the time and my sense of self was not fully formed. I got smart quick and learned to avoid certain types of men.

The more harmful "trashing" comes from the nice guy, the lover who feels the need to inform you of your faults - just for the information. Like it is a favour. It is the obliviousness of the man (who really want you to get naked with him often!) when they do that is painful and lasts. Creeps are creeps and you eventually learn not to care what they think. Same for the catty type of women. Don't hang out with them. It is the "nice" guys with whom you are affectionate with - the ones you care that they regard you well - that's when it is painful and destructive.

And it can be your dad, or your brothers and their friends, as much as it can be your lover.

When someone breaks you into body parts and then gives thumbs up and thumbs down on those parts, you start seeing yourself in parts too. AKA stated it earlier - women develop the same way of looking at themselves as men. This viewing ourselves with a male gaze is ancient.

All I am saying to the males out there who want something better, and wonder why women get this weird relationship with thier body - don't add to the centuries of history, okay?

I feel the need to add this since women who complain about body image pressures are assumed to be ugly fat and have no female form:

So here I am, and have been, not beautiful, not ugly, pretty average attractive. Never been fat, have been too thin on occasion. Body type in between a Keira Knightly and a Scarlette Johanson - you know, average "tits". Balance of althetic, intellectual, technical, artistic activities and interests. Travelled. (I am using this one example among others) But someone I am in a romantic relationship with says informationally, "your tits are too small but I like your ass" and I feel that all of what I am has been reduced to these two parts, one of which is "okay" and one not.

Wow.

So - do not do this to women you care about. If you want to segment them up in your mind and grade them like beef cuts - keep it to your self. You are NOT helping otherwise.

FYI - I do have a decent sense of self. You can have good self esteem AND still be stung. It is not an either-or. However, over time, it does add to a sense of cynicism.

Unfortunately, after writing this, I know the usual suspects will come back and say the usual shit: Women compete with each other. Women tear each other down. Women are jealous of other women. blah blah blah.

This is amazingly fast moving thread!

There are always a few jerks who come to a subject like this just to play havoc, but overall - there has been a lot of interesting discussion.

I would say that a LOT of people, male and female, are aware of how harmful superficial and artificial concentration on The Body is, and that is why there has been such interest in this topic. People want their real selves to be seen and valued - not just the tiny pieces. It hurts both genders when they are reduced to parts

It has been a fascinating read.

(Now I must find an italian2english conversion)