Letters to the Editor
Christopher1988
Published Letters: 567 Editor's Choice: 40
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Anonymous,
[Read the article: ABC's of gender]
[Read more letters about this article: Here]It may surprise you, but I know what I'm thinking better than you know what I'm thinking. I don't think it's a question of the Bad Ole Patriarchy. I think it's probably a slow evolution from tribal needs to social customs to outdated concepts. And yes, many people still believe in them. They do. Sorry that bothers you, but they do (which is why AKA Smith made the point she made, to which I was responding).
I didn't paint women as any sort of victims or the oppressed. Not one word of that in there, entirely your inferance, and entirely incorrect. If you look at my initial post here, and what I said about my nieces, you'd know I don't think anything of the kind. Actually, if you look at what I'm saying about women's treatment in the workplace in another forum (you can find any posts by anyone here), you'll know that is not the way I think.
But old concepts still linger, women are still considered the cooks because they are taking care of the husband (lots of men still don't bother to learn to cook even though they aren't married or don't have girlfriends because they think that's a woman's job). The majority of chefs still seem to be men.
You're reading a lot into my post and for some reason dishing out a lot of anger. Sorry, I'm not angry, and I'm not playing Papa Oppresses. That's not how I look at things.
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AKA Smith,
[Read the article: Her sexy T-shirt says "Kitty Not Happy" -- is that OK at work?]
[Read more letters about this article: Here]I think your being a little silly, but here's my reply:
"If I have to wear pantyhose, you should to. You are in for a real treat." Well, why should the rule be you have to wear pantyhose? How about you should wear some sort of garment under your shoe that's appropriate for the office? I'll wear dress socks, and you can do the same. Or hose should you prefer.
"If you get to wear a white shirt without a bra, I should get to as well. I hate bras." Men where undershirts. They don't allow their nipples to show anymore than women do, or their hairchests, which women generally lack. I have no probablem with women wearing undershirts rather than bras.
"If the job requires skirts for women employees, men better kilt up." I wouldn't require that. I'd say office attire can be either slacks or a skirt depending on personal choice.
"BTW, do you bring your dog to work with you?" Nope.
The big mistake is that you are confusing "equal" with "same." Women and men should be treated equally, and show equal respect towards one another, but they aren't identical beings. Which is why women get maternity leave and men don't, to use one example.
I don't think the issue with this t-shirt breaks down the same way, because the point isn't that men and women wear different forms of t-shirts with the same flirty intention of "take it how I want you to depending how I feel about you." The fact is that in professional situation these days, men are asked to put up with whatever sexual vibe a woman wants to present, aggressive or absent, playful or serious, and accomodate themselves to it, while women are not asked to, and will not for one moment be made to, put up with a sexual vibe a man choses to present.
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You're really missing it.
[Read the article: ABC's of gender]
[Read more letters about this article: Here]I said it is percieved that way. People have the idea in their head. That doesn't make it accurate. But it is a commonly held belief. This can't be news to you. That you could so misread my posts and then say I don't know what I'm writing...you clearly don't know what you're reading. You're problem, not mine.
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"perceived"
[Read the article: ABC's of gender]
[Read more letters about this article: Here]sp correction
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Wait a minute.
[Read the article: Her sexy T-shirt says "Kitty Not Happy" -- is that OK at work?]
[Read more letters about this article: Here]You simply don't want to see it that way, despite letter after letter saying many people see the Kitty tee as innocent and even posting photos of the Kitty tee that looked quite innocuous. You want to see the Kitty shirt in the context of things the LW posted that others find dubious. This is certainly your right.
It is not just me seeing things this way. There are many posts from others saying the same thing.
Your Muslim fundamentalist example doesn't work because we don't live in a country by majority Muslim, and correct dress is based on societal dictates. A t-shirt is still considered inappropriate office wear at most jobs. Sexually provocative behavior is too...when men are the ones doing it.
Is this t-shirt instance a bit of minutia? When it comes to what makes someone sexually uncofortable in the work place, that isn't an easily defined issue. It clearly would be minutia to you, but to a man or woman who was bothered by it as a sexually overt statement, it would not be.
A gay man I know once tossed condoms around in the office one day, as a joke (it was AIDS Awareness Day, or the Pride Parade was coming up, or something, I don't remember). A woman in the office was offended, and though there weren't specific guidelines to cover the incident, and though it was not meant to be sexually provacative, and though the codoms weren't as far as I'm aware tossed at or towards her, he was written up, and that write up remains on his permanent record at that job to this day, and always will.
The LW describes a situation where a woman is choosing to bring sex into the workplace, and taunting him for having an issue with her bringing sex into the workplace, and you seem to be saying it's all okay because we're still working out our gender/social issues. Bull. It's unfair, and would not be tolerated from a man towards a woman.
And, by the way, though this keeps getting lost, I totally agree that if the particular company allows t-shirts, and allows double entendre t-shirts (even if they don't allow shirts with advertizements), then it's her right to wear them. Unfair, reverse sexism. But still her right at that job.