It's ridiculous and false to demand that for anyone to have an opinion on Islam that they must personally know 1.3 billion people. That's stupid and you know it.

I'm aware that there is much variance in Islam, but I'm also aware that there is less variance than the apologists like to claim when they are running away from owning their own theology.

the answer to all your questions is "No".

Let me be clear--I think that 99% of the Muslim hating that goes on in forums like this one is a farce, a bogeyman set up to further the cause of conservatives. And I think that is very sad, and I have seen it radicalize some nice people who do not really believe in Islam the religion, but they end driven into the arms of political Islam. People a little bit like Tim, but who were born into the tradition.

In that sense, I sympathize with your post (besides the fact that Broadsheet has, in fact, reported on anti-woman atrocities in Brazil).

But, damn it all, that does not make Islam a good philosophy of life, especially not as I experienced it. After many years and much thought, I realized that my liberalism in fact meshed with my hard-won realization that Islam is the most illiberal social force on the face of the planet.

Liberals who persistently scream otherwise are arguing from a position of being, quite rightly, anti-racism and anti-colonialism and so and so on. But they are behind the times, I think.

I highly recommend Tawfik Hamid, who used to be involved in a terrorist group in Egypt, as a starter reading. He considers himself a Muslim who would like to see reform; he is not an apostate; he isn't a hater. That hasn't stopped CAIR from going after him, naturally (so much for there being a lot of room for different opinions under the big Muslim tent. NOT!). Give him a try. He should be more widely heard.

But that doesn't make Islam

thank for parroting the official Islamic propaganda concerning this topic. It's too bad you cannot deal with the word "damn", but you know what? That's just tough.

You can spam the thread if you want. "Honor Killing" and "FGM" are both Western terms invented and used by Westerners. That's why you don't hear about them in Islam. Both of these things are such total non-issues, non-concepts even, in your religion that they are never even mentioned. In 1,400 years, never one mention! Don't think, if Islam is as wonderful as you claim, these abhorrent "purely cultural" practices would be banned explicitly? But that never happened, did it?

You say Islam came to "fight honor killings". This is a total lie. I challenge you to come up with one text on this subject, one fatwa predating the 20th century, something in the Hadith, anything at all about honor killing. Same with FGM. I dare you.

On the other hand, I can come up with a verse in the Q'uran stating that married women slaves can be compelled to have sex their owners (Quote: "Men may not have sexual relations with married women, except those whom their right hands possess"). Raping slave girls is a protected right in the Q'uran--but, gee, like you said, FGM isn't mentioned. Maybe before you and all your girl friends flood the thread you should read your own holy book. Try it and then get back to me, okay?

and expects to scold me about using a very mild expletive, in lieu of having no real way to rebut what I said.

Typical.

You have seen a lot of bad things happen in the name of Islam (as you yourself admit), and so you have chosen to posit all your faith in Islam in a mythologized golden past. So the Islam you see around you now is not the "real Islam", the only "real Islam" was practised by the first Muslims, whose lives have been conveniently shrouded in history and fable, and about whom you know nothing firsthand.

I'm sorry for you, but girl....you're drinking the kool-aid.

This Islam you see around you today is it. The first Muslims were not any better and may have been quite a bit worse. The Conquest may have been your golden years but it was a bloody time for the people at the other end of the sword.

Lexsali says that the Bible says horrible things, then says feminism in the West evolved through rejection of the Bible, then says Muslims "will never reject their religion to empower women".

It's over, folks. That's the game. A self-professed "Muslim feminist" says it herself.

Tim also appears to bear out my point. He hasn't one rebuttal of substance, not one. He just keeps pointing to an "authentic Muslim woman", like she's some kind of okapi in the zoo. He has completely ignored the fact that her logic is fallacious and very, very weak. She admits she has been traumatized by witnessing unnamed "bad things" done that "were supposed to be in the name of Islam", but just decided that Islam doesn't really exist in the present day any more, but was ideally practiced by its founders....an idea she knows she cannot prove.

Too much animus? Yes, everybody is throwing dirt but they haven't replied to a single point I've made, not one.

I'm not going to keep beating this drum. Been there, done that, have the hijab (in storage, thank God). I have left Islam. I was a Westerner by birth and I had this option. I'm not really interested in fighting anybody. I'm just sorry that this is such a liberal causus belli, when the reality of living as a Muslim woman is so different from anything espoused by progressive thought (yes, yes, granted there are degrees and so on and so forth).

We're all just repeating ourselves now, I think.