Tim, I WAS a Muslim for a decade. I lived in different Muslim countries. You can retreat into the shell of your imaginary authority if you want. I have experienced this. I just strongly disagree with you, because I experienced all this as a non-academic and a woman.

Yes "Feminist Muslim" is an oxymoron in my mind. Yes, all the things you listed are a string of oxymorons. I used to strongly believe in this concept. Now I know that it is only hypocrisy--these women want to be Westernized and share those benefits with others, but they CAN'T just say that outright. And you'd have to be a slobbering fool not to see that their own "feminist movement", such as it is, is entirely informed and inspired by the one in the West. There's nothing wrong with that, but why does this have to be hidden?

Since this is "bad" and has to be hidden, this leaves "Muslim feminists" entirely open to the charge of being "Westernized sluts", a charge which they cannot refute because it is, well, true. A "good Muslim woman" will ALWAYS be the polar opposite of a feminst.

As for "why don't you talk to Muslim women, dear misinformed Tina"---you arrogant SOB, that's all I did for years. Everybody else can tell, why can't you?

And the Muslim girls who have just posted here are being coy about Sharia. They are doing this on purpose and the sum result is, they are lying. Substitute "Killed" or "executed" for "prosecuted" in Narushta's letter and you will see what I mean. Hey Narushta, why won't you say "killed"? You're kind of leaving us with the impression that Sharia doesn't even HAVE a death penalty!! You do know what you're doing, don't you?

And, yes, we have seen this "beating" or "flogging" at work for premarital sex. Remember the Girl of Qatif? That's what her sentence was for. This is Sharia at work.

And most Muslims don't believe rape can be proven unless the girl has been beaten almost to death. Everything else is consensual in their minds.

I have no truck with Sharia apologists in any configuration. It's a brutal, tribal code that has no place in modern society.

And finally, we have the relativists taking another round, saying, "because we are bad, that makes them less bad...." No, it doesn't. Even if it made us all the same, it wouldn't be an excuse.

I'm here, I'm speaking, and I know what I'm talking about. You aren't going to bully me by trying to say, "but I've lived there..." or any of the rest of it. So have I.

And "I'm an atheist Muslim?" Excuse me, how does that work, since, as people her KEEP ON INSISTING, Islam does not exist as a cultural or political body?

Of course there are "atheist Muslims", even if that sounds a little weird. They have their cultural and political roots in Islam, but don't believe in it as a religion. Simple. And you posters thought you had Muslim identity all defined--you kept saying there wasn't any such thing! Surprised?

Y'all need to chew on that for a while, I guess. I've got to get back to work.

since homosexuality merits the death penalty in Islam, I have to assume your friend in Pakistan is somewhat less than forthright about her sexual preferences in that society.

Whatever mental gymnastics she has gone through to say she can be both a Muslima and a lesbian...you have to ask yourself...wouldn't it be easier to just leave the religion whose followers would put you to death, instead of trying to live with all the inherent contradictions?

Oh, right, in Pakistan you can't do that. Leaving Islam, also, being punishable by death. Under Sharia.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Lovely Islam.

Tim Behrend apparrently wrote an article for Inside Indonesia attempting to defend Abu Bakar Ba'asyir, a fundamentalist Imam arrested for involvement in terrorim activities, culminating in the bombings of the Kuta nightclubs.

Here's the link:

http://www.insideindonesia.org/edit74/behrend.html

It's a rather typical anti-Western rant.

Mr. or Dr. Behrend has apparently adopted political revolutionary Islam without bothering to even acquire a belief in Allah.

The folks on Salon are a bright bunch; I'll leave them to draw their own conclusions.

Religion of Peace (TM). Don't forget, now.

terrorism activites. darn typos.

you don't know how many Muslim women I know.

All the Muslims and many of the fundie Christians I have talked to insist that there should be injuries consistent with physically resisting for a sexual attack to be considered rape. There is even a longish section of the Bible dealing with this, in Deutoronomy.

Our modern notions of psychology and crime do not support this. This is one of the things I am talking about.

You may know Muslims who don't believe this. Good for you. I would suspect that they are Western educated, in the elite class, and atypical.

But I don't want to go round and round about this. I have known many Muslims, but sure, I don't know the whole 1.3 billion, and I am aware that people's experiences differ.

But I don't believe that Islam and feminism are compatible as those two words are usually understood and defined. If you want to make up a definition for "Islam" and another for "feminism" to suit your personal taste, then by all means do go ahead. Just don't expect that to change it for everybody else. I know home-schooling women-belong-in-the-kitchen fundies who insist they are the REAL feminists. Feminism is a term that has been co-opted and is subject to much doublespeak.

Hence, "Muslim feminists". Only by twisting the word do you get to that place.