Domestic Violence, FGM, Women's Rights In General

Short version: Muslims did not give one shit about these issues, and did not even perceive them to BE issues, until they became issues in the Western world. Then they picked up on that. The condemnation made some defensive (and you can still hear that defensive tone from some fundies), but many others were anxious not to appear as horrible barbarians in the eyes of Europeans, and some small number may have objectively seen the problem once it was pointed out to them. Don't get me wrong; I don't think that's bad at all. I think it's great if some concept of protecting the rights of women has made it into the collective mindset of Muslims.

What DOES Islam have to say about women anyway? There are two ways to tell--we can see how Muslim women live, and we can see what the texts that Muslims follow have to say.

Let's be clear: after 1,400 years of Islam the status of women was where exactly? With small variations, from the Ottoman empire to Indonesia, women were living extremely constricted lives, such that in the late 1800s the Ottoman police force could not investigate the murder of women because women victims (found dumped in rivers and on the streets) had never been seen outside their homes and often could not even be identified by anyone (I challenge anyone to say that Europe was EVER that bad). In other words, very literal invisibility, almost a non-existence. The Arab world, the geographical and spiritual heart of Islam, was and is the worst offender (I'm sure the misogyny of Arab culture had a great deal to do with Islam's misogyny, but well--so Islam spread Arabic style misogyny through the world--not so great, even if you take the "it's only cultural" viewpoint). In the places where it has gotten better, like Turkey, there has been a great, conscious effort to purge religion from the culture, or at least from the workings of the state.

Islam never had anything to say about honor killings in 1,400 years.

Islam never had anything to say about FGM in 1,400 years.

This isn't because the religion is set in stone and unchanging. People sometimes think this, but it's not true at all. Islam has a scholarly class of religiously trained intellectuals and a long tradition of active theological debate. Honor killings, FGM, and the status of women generally were completely absent from this discourse, except for some rulings that restricted women's freedom still further--even further than Muhammad imagined it. Someone can correct me on this if they know of an exception--I've never seen any and I used to practice Islam (it was precisely this issue that drove me away from it).

Suddenly FGM and Honor Killings are condemned by Westerners, and Muslim Imams in the West start condemning them too, saying no, no, this is not Islamic, Islam is not in favor of this....

REALLY? Then pray tell how did all this go on for 1,400 years? If not for it, Islam was certainly not against it. And Islam is definitely FOR forcing women to live in purdah, etc. and so forth, and only by changing the traditional interpretation of texts and rulings do Muslims start to get away from these practices which are CLEARLY rooted in Islamic belief and unique to Muslim cultures. Again this departure, this loosening up ONLY happens with the advent of encroaching Westernization and fundies still get much purchase for their viewpoints by pointing this out (they are correct, which helps).

As for what the sacred texts of Islam say about women, I've posted about this again and again, because people just don't know. If someone is that interested they can read one of my other posts on the subject.

I don't hate Muslims or Islam, not any more than say, Southern Baptists or the Japanese imperial family. But I do not get this feminist double-think when it comes to Islam. When Southern Baptists or the Japanese imperial family treat their members like cattle and force them to live with sexist shit, we call it on the carpet. When it happens within Islam, AND Islam the religion is clearly playing an integral part, the liberal community suddenly uses all excuses and prevarications of the weirdest kind. I really really do not get it. Even political correctness cannot explain this to me.

I mean from the Islamic point of view.

That said, I still do believe in the existence of morality, including a sexual morality.

So you can still have something to hold against me :)