but it may be an improvement. Unfortunately, some thoroughly aggravating posters are already Salon premium members and more than happy to use their names.

I've noticed a number of changes being put into effect over at Huffpost, too. I guess we have to be extra extra good 'cause we know the Republicans are watching!

That said, I have never posted anything nasty about Dick Cheney. So there.

See you all soon,

Tina

and, Pakistan has the bomb. it is very much in our interests that they do not become Talibanized.

Also you must know that these developments in the Lal Masajid and the border regions, led by the "mad mullahs", represents something which is totally alien to Pakistan's history and culture. It threatens to change that culture beyond recognition. It's not a resurgence of the old. It's a new invader.

When you snidely demand that Westerners "stay out of this business", you may not realize that Americans created the Taliban in order to fight a proxy war with the Soviet Union in Afghanistan. Now the Pakistanis are hosting our Frankenstein and they are not too happy about it.

If you want to know what Pakistanis themselves are saying about the Lal Masajid confrontations, I would direct you to the Pakistaniat/All Things Pakistan blog which has been hosting discussion on the female official who hugged et. al. Read the comments thread.

You may be surprised.

Nothing like arrogant liberals telling other arrogant liberals sitting in ghora-land they are arrogant.

thank you for being so abundantly gracious with your comment, but may I point out that it is because I DO know something about what Pakistanis think about it that the whole culture-is-all-relative position appalls me. Most Pakistanis are very worried about the mad mullahs taking over and we are saying, in our infinite wisdom, "well, it's their culture...we musn't be judgemental". How helpful, especially if you are a reform minded person living in Pakistan!

We are all human beings, are we not, and as such require a modicum of control over our lives and some ability to make choices, whatever our culture may be. To refuse to agree with at least this much means we are operating with no moral standard.

Taking our cue from this we can say objectively whether a country's practices are oppressive or not. And we must include women in that. That's not "judging", that's just using your brain.

I have always been uncomfortable with the way anthropologists dehumanize their subjects (something their subjects are also notably uncomfortable with), and I have always been uncomfortable with the way Trekkies can't seem to remember it's all just a damn television show.

if you think it is all so irrelevant, why have you made several posts on the subject? Something we don't know about?

I am 100% certain my foreign travel and experience has exceeded and continues to exceed yours. Have you ever been in Pakistan? I have, and at least 15 other countries and I mean for years at a time.

I don't think the long standing U.S. involvement in Pakistan is going to end any time soon just because you think it ought to. Obviously somebody thinks the region has some strategic value and they are higher placed than yourself.

I don't care about the big geopolitical game myself, and you are not really talking about the ongoing challenge to Musharaff that is taking place at the lal masajid. I am only pointing out that just because you know less than squat about Pakistan or its culture doesn't mean that Pakistani culture can't be understood by any American. How can you make such a blanket statement?

Everybody in the world has a stake in the radicalization of a nuclear armed country. To pretend otherwise is irresponsible and a form of arrogance in its own right. Now do you understand that?

Now if you have something to say that has to do with the post about Nillofur Bakhtiar and the fatwa against her (a very weird and unusual ruling by Pakistani standards by the way as evidenced by the fact that this was apparently a little too much even for the deobandi to swallow) then please post it, if you're only hear to start trouble please go make it elsewhere.

so that there is really nothing to add; I much enjoy her letters.

I don't need to repeat all her points. I generally agree with Kamiya's message here, BUT he falls for the old canard that Israel is the proper whipping boy for all the problems in the Muslim world, and he rather simplistically labels all Muslims who aren't Hamas militants or ideologically near that point as "self-hating Muslims". Come on!

Victoria L. and those who are on board with that outlook may want to look up some of Dr. Tawfik Hamid's articles. His most recent I believe was an op-ed in the Washington Post. As a previous member of an Egyptian terrorist group, he has a credible viewpoint. He does not condemn Islam and still considers himself a Muslim, but he has the liberal West's number about our baffling support for Islamic extremists.

By the way Juan Cole's (who writes for Salon) completely gratutitious attack on him because a lecture series he gave in Detroit was sponsored by a Jewish interfaith dialogue group was very, very disappointing given the respect I usually have for Cole's knowledge. Cole's linking up to the even more venomous, and misleading, gratutitious attack on Tawfik Hamid put out by the Council of American Islamic Relations (those lovely folks who brought us the lawsuit shopping Flying Imams) was even more disappointing.

Juan Cole lost 85% of the esteem in which I held him for that. Dr. Hamid's lucid and sensible viewpoints speak for themselves.

Victoria, check him out. Or better yet, Salon, publish something he's written. It might salvage your reputation.

The best we can hope for is that they won't torture her first.