But commonsense-wise, if there ever was a reason to go to war, this was it. Maybe war is never ever justified. But then the argument has to be about that.

All the stuff about legality of the war, lack of evidence about bin Laden is blah, blah, blah, red-herring. The US tried diplomacy - in concert with the only two nations that had influence on the Taliban - for eight years and failed. -- macgupta

Utter bullshit. There was no justification to destroy a country simply because the Bush Administration claimed then that bin Laden was the mastermind. (now they claim otherwise)

I have read many reports by men in a position to know that tell us the Taliban was willing to work with us after 9-11. And we all know of Bush's legendary negotiation skills and temperament, eh?

But go to war you did. How did that work out for you? Did you get bin Laden? Is Al-Qeada disbanded? No? Then perhaps you need to kill more women and children and destroy more governments and countries. Let us see now. Pakistan has nukes and Israel does not like that. Put them on the list. Iran? Israel does not like them either; put them down for destruction.

Justification? Why yours of course. If it is claimed that a "terrorist" is within a country's boarders and you do not like the government of the country --- then invade.

This is a great wrap-up of the events, and he mentions Glenn's contributions. I think it well worth a read. Grigg is a well known critic of the militarized police and their tactics.

http://freedominourtime.blogspot.com/2008/09/stormtroopin.html

My favorite (ok, one of them):

"... Police who conducted the pre-convention raids claim to have found 37 "caltrops" – spikes that are scattered on a motorway to disable cars during a police pursuit. What was actually found was not a supply of standard-issue caltrops, but roofing nails that had supposedly been "weaponized."

"To be fair, roofing nails could be used as caltrops, but they could also be used as roofing nails," Nestor pointed out when I asked him about that reported discovery. "Some police experts insist that these particular roofing nails had been modified or bundled together in some way that suggests the intention to use them to disrupt traffic. But this is suggestive, once again, largely because of the stories told by the informants. Otherwise you've got common roofing nails" – possession of which is evidence only of a plot to repair one's roof. ..."

We have little hope of finding out all that did happen during those years, but we have in the open information that should have been used to impeach the president and most of the leaders of the executive branch. Democrats refused to move on impeachment.

So, what now? If a man can get caught committing crimes and all that happens is that there will perhaps be a footnote in the history books, how can we expect future presidents to obey the law? If there is no punishment ever, how could we ever expect men to not rob the local bank when they need money?

Is the idea of punishment for wayward governmental officials too far fetched? Am I too far out on this?

I sent Art a card, hope you did the same.

If the Democrats want to be a "difference" and a maker of change, what issues are important this election cycle?

I see only two that are winners with middle America. The economy is issue number one and the Democratic Party is well positioned to blame the Republicans for the depression. (yes, depression)

The other issue is related. The war machine costs so damn much that it has bankrupted the US. Dismantle the damn thing. Or, at least scale back the expenditures of the military/intelligence/security parts of the budget to give the economy half a chance to recover.

A slogan could be: "The Republicans spend trillions to kill people, we want to help America's people"

They do the budget. They can eliminate the funds of any agency that does not cooperate. That is power --- but only if used.

They can also impeach the head of any agency that refuses to cooperate. That is power --- but only if used.

They can impeach, then try, any president who does not follow the constitution --- real, real power; if used.

Art,

I am glad to hear they have helped you and that you are home. Drop me a snail-mail note someday when you get time if you want. The addy was on the card envelope.

Anywho --- may the wind stay at your back.

I agree with the need to expose the Republicans at every turn for the liars that they are. They have never believed in free markets. Yes I know the talk about it all the time, but "free-markets" in Republican speak is code for "managed markets that we can steal money from".

This myth is everywhere. For example, even with the latest news about AIG, people like Paul Krugman still are insisting that we have "unregulated free markets" on Wall Street.

Don't forget that the free market is based upon a profit and loss system, as losses are just as important to economic calculation as are profits. By agreeing to absorb the losses that these reckless firms have accumulated, the Fed has undermined free markets, not supported them.

No bailouts!

I left out of last post (edit feature pretty please!) the fact that the Federal Reserve is printing up $80 billion for AIG in return for 80% ownership.

You people realize that Wall Street Elites just got bail out on the back of the poor yet again, don't you?

I will say, I saw Obama start to pound this theme yesterday. Good on him.