(H): The philosophy of materialism holds that the only thing that exists is matter; hence "matter worship".

Aych: There are other things than matter, there is energy for instance, and "dark energy" which has only fairly recently been discovered. Not to mention the entire problem of "dark matter" which no one really seems to have a handle on.

If I remember my physics at all, matter and energy are equal. I think some guy named Einstein pointed that out just before he got into the fast food business. (Einstein's Bagels)

Hence, nothing you wrote contradicts my statement. (after all, it is cribbed from a physics text)

Not averse to throwing a couple of insults yourself, are you? I took "matter worshiper" as an insult so you were the first actually.

My dear fellow, are you one who takes statements to the general readership to heart and then pretends that it was directed at just you? Please read the message again.

http://letters.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/09/06/carney/
permalink/ad7eb0d66876b9d994c2346127d67936.html

However you do have, as the deepest of faith, a belief in science-ism. Good for you. Try and remember that science and engineering are not exactly the same thing. Just because your car runs well does not mean that we understand abiogenesis.

(H): Evolution, on the other hand, is part of the process we see all about us. Life evolves, and you can make book on that. (but where does it come from in the first place?)

(Aych): Ever heard of panspermia, aka exogenesis?

Now that is funny!

I have argued that Fred Hoyle was on to something big with Panspermia for decades. I have argued that with evolutionary Biologists who hate the idea. Many biologists have told me that it is just creationism in disguise! And you support it also!

Imagine that.

In swing-state Colorado, the Republican Secretary of State conducted the biggest purge of voters in history, dumping a fifth of all registrations. Guess their color.

In swing-state Florida, the state is refusing to accept about 85,000 new registrations from voter drives – overwhelming Black voters.

In swing state New Mexico, HALF of the Democrats of Mora, a dirt poor and overwhelmingly Hispanic county, found their registrations disappeared this year, courtesy of a Republican voting contractor.

In swing states Ohio and Nevada, new federal law is knocking out tens of thousands of voters who lost their homes to foreclosure.

(Air America Radio's Thom Hartmann as transcribed by Greg Palast; click sig for more)

known as voter caging

Holy Shit! That is a new one on me. Thanks for the heads up.

There is a word for that. -- Aycharaych

In your case it is called being delude. You started with an attack on me and are bound and determined to keep it up.

Why? I guess because your faith was challenged --- we see that a lot.

Your words exactly: ...

So? There was some point to that? That is the reason you said "there is a word for that" or something to that effect?

Just here to play games I see.

Web sites with a religious bias, often hidden, use a much harsher definition of materialism so they can demonstrate that it is deficient as a philosophy. I think that is what you are doing, whether intentionally or not, I do not know. -- Mike Sulzer

Then you think wrong. I am not on the side of the bible thumpers as my first post made perfectly clear. Perhaps you read it?

I also made clear that the definition I used was over-simplified for purposes of this thread. I can not help it if some sites you have seen do things you think dishonest. Tell them about it.

You are however responsible for the words you write. Like making up stories about another poster immediately after complaining about others doing the the very same thing.

It's called self-pwn3ge

-- Aycharaych

You are, as we say in the south, a lying mother-fucker. Your delusions are not my responsibility.

You started talking to me just to attack and you keep at it. Are you lwm?

But, we can have a long, long go at it all day if you want. And that seems to be exactly what you want.

No Mike. I have been through this discussion a thousand times. I even had a long, long conversation with [famous scientist's name goes here] a few years back.

Science recognizes only matter/energy as can be measured by human faculties, or instrumentation, or extrapolated from same. This is taken on faith, religious faith.

I, on the other hand, do not believe in faith at all. I have no faith in a "god of Abraham", nor in matter/energy being all there is, nor in all the cosmos coming into being in a magical moment called a singularity. (but the Big Bang is a great creation myth and I support it)

I am not "thinking outside the box"; rather I tore the box up and threw it away. :-) I am trying to indicate that in the religion-science debate that both sides are usually wrong.

Note: Since the nature of this blog does not lead to being able to write multipage retorts over the course of weeks; many things here must be simplified. Perhaps over-simplified.

Another great post Glenn.

It is amazing that generation after generation America clings to the myth that the media is "liberal". It really helps the right-wing to have right-wingers and neo-cons on TV thought of as "liberal" or "moderate". Boy, that fouls up the thinking of middle America.

Obama should win in a landslide. If it is even close, then we have little hope for the future of this country as a nation of free people.