"Half of Americans now say Iraq had weapons of mass destruction when the United States invaded the country in 2003 -- up from 36 percent last year, a Harris poll finds" (Washington Times, 7/24/2006); "Nearing the second anniversary of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, seven in 10 Americans continue to believe that Iraq's Saddam Hussein had a role in the attacks" (Washington Post, 9/6/2003); "The same poll in June showed that 56% of all Republicans said they thought Saddam was involved with the 9/11 attacks. In the latest poll that number actually climbs, to 62%" (USA Today/Gallup poll, 10/6/2004); "The latest Harris Poll has some interesting results on public opinions of Saddam Hussein's possible links to al Qaeda. Of those Americans polled, 64% agree that Saddam Hussein had 'strong' links to al Qaeda" (Harris poll, July 21, 2006); "49 percent of Americans think the president has the authority to suspend the Constitution . . . Only a third of Americans understood that much of the rest of the world opposed our invasion [of Iraq]. Another third thought the rest of the world was cheering our invasion, and a third thought the rest of the world was neutral" (Rick Shenkman, June, 2008).

This is the real problem. The government can bend reality for its populace to whatever it cares to bend it to. Read those words above again and see that we have a much larger problem than the bible thumpers thinking that all matter was created in 7 days by a white haired guy who later went insane or the matter worshipers who have faith that matter just pops into being from out of nothingness.

Yes, we have a population that might vote for any damn thing because they are fed shit and kept in the dark about what really goes on in the world. That, my friends, is a real and imitate danger.

We should not have government schools that force one creation myth or the other on kids. We should have all kinds of private schools and let them teach as they will. But, rather, we should find a way to punish any reporter who uses the MSM to pass lies to the American Public.

There is a difference between science and mythology, you appear not to have a very good handle on that difference judging by some of your posts.

Really? Care to be specific, or are we just going to hurl insults today? Or perhaps it is that you can not believe that others do not always care for your mythology?

I'm not a "matter worshiper", whatever that might be, just someone who thinks Occam's razor is a useful tool for separating bullshit from fact.

The philosophy of materialism holds that the only thing that exists is matter; hence "matter worship".

It would be nice if you learned how to handle that razor before you cut yourself. As I recall, if two equally good theories are at hand then we pick the simpler of the two. (this is, indeed, oversimplified but close enough for today)

We do not even have one good theory of the creation of matter from nothingness, much less two. I have supported the Big Bang since the 70s but I know it to be only a creation myth. Besides, a man can do a lot of science without ever considering the origin of the cosmos. Sometimes it is OK to say --- we just don't know.

Down here where I live, private school almost always means fundamentalist religious school. I will stop paying taxes and go to jail for it if my tax money is used to support fundamentalist religious schools.

I do not think anyone should have to pay for schools other than to pay for their own children. You seem happy that your kids have a free ride on my nickel but would hate it if you have to pay for the other fellow's idea to keep his kids out of government schools.

That, my friend, is what sells to the fascists in the Republican Party. They say all Democrats want to steal tax money and indoctrinate the children. Let us not give them any more ammo than they have now.

My position is that everyone on today's thread talking about "creationism", "intellegent design", or the materialist origin of the cosmos was wrong. We just do not know.

Evolution, on the other hand, is part of the process we see all about us. Life evolves, and you can make book on that. (but where does it come from in the first place?)

You got that right.

It is hard to point out anything in an arena such as this without others thinking that you advocate whatever you point out. Get used to it.

...about the superior virtue of small town America is going to save you on this issue -- the people in those towns are neither kinder, nor more or less neighborly in my experience than folks in cities. They are merely equals. ... -- Holly McLachlan

The funniest story in my family involves the term "happy-ass" so I just had to respond to this.

It is true that people are the same all over the globe, now and throughout time. As a group, people will react in predictable ways and we can even guess ahead of time what they might do --- if we understand the initial conditions.

The above does not say that all people are identical to each other, even though an aggressive, purposeful misreading could be made to suggest so. (for the many crazies on the thread, not Holly)