They have tried to build another hospital in my town for 12 years. It was fought tooth and nail by, guess now, the largest hospital in town. They claimed we did not need the new hospital and it would damage profitability of the existing hospitals. (oddly, expansions by the biggest one was not held up)

If you do not know the restrictions on medical care in this country; just make a few wheelchairs and sell them without governmental approval. I'll love to hear what you tell the judge. Or, better yet, set up a medical practice without approval. Don't cheat, put it on the sign you are not licensed. See what happens.

I can not believe that so many here think medicine is not a highly restricted operation. Hell, you have to have a specific license to operate any given machine in the hospital.

Please read:

http://mobile.salon.com/news/feature/2009/09/03/india/index.html

for an insight into the differences between the USA and India --- published right here on Salon.

Then why does wikipedia have that other chart just below the one you are using?

The chart you are using gives good information, but it is a moving target. A chart showing spending (adjusted for inflation) is far more honest. (assuming that is the goal) It is also revealing in ways that the GDP chart hides.

Nice personal insult; you will fit in here ok.

However, give this a read and tell me how the guy is wrong:

http://mobile.salon.com/news/feature/2009/09/03/india/index.html

After that, tell me how keeping the supply of doctors low makes the cost stay low. I thought the law of supply and demand was known even to the likes of you.

I understand you to say that the restrictions on medical schools, doctors, hospitals and other medical personnel does not drive up costs. You are saying that shortages (artificial or otherwise) do not tend to send prices up.

That is an amazing stance you have there. Care to share what school of economics teaches that?

By the way; where may I look to see a country that does not have governmental interference in the private sector? I ask so that I may see ever rising costs without interference by the government of that country.

How about showing the raw debt adjusted for inflation rather than always the moving target GDP list. And while you are at it; how about the debt calculated on the same basis as business has to do: because that will get you about 80 Trillion in debt right now according to the federal government.

While you are at it, why not mention that these budgets are not just Republican or Democrat. We have spent ourselves into ruin on a bipartisan basis. Woopie do.

Billions (or will it be trillions?)for health care insurance, trillions for ever more troops in the field, billions (or will it be trillions?) to "save the planet" from CO2, and great gobs of money for others to steal on other boondoggles to numerous to list. One might think that the empire is close to financial collapse.

In the end, someone has to stop and say that if we act if money is endless then it will be worthless.

I have not been following the thread, work and all you understand, but this caught my eye as I looked at the last few pages.

If folks here want to talk about health care, then they should at least talk about health care and not just insurance. If the "health care system" is broken then just a different way to pay for it will not help all that much in the long run. (perhaps not even the short run)

Your elected officials are not debating how the system could be made vastly better --- only how to make sure everyone can have "adequate" care.

One of the main problems was highlighted by a fellow right here on Salon some weeks back. He compared the costs in the USA with the costs in India by way of his personal experiences with the two systems. Until we remove the high prices due to governmental interference --- better insurance will not help.

I have noticed that "evil Zionists" come in various kinds. Some are Jews, but many are not Jews at all. In fact, some Zionists don't even like Jews and that is sort of weird but is related to some ideas on prophesy.

I have noticed that Jews come in various kinds. Some are religious Jews, some are Jews by birth only, and some have converted. Some Jews are Zionists, some are not, and some think the state of Israel is an affront to Judaism.

I have noticed that Muslims also come in various kinds. Some are Sufi, some are Muslim in name only (like many Protestants here in the US), some are peace loving, some are not, some are fanatics, and some don't even follow college football. :)

The problem with most of these groups is that they take their religion literally. That is, they fall to the devil of dogma.

All we really know for sure is that it is far, far easier to see the speck in that other fellow's eye than the beam in our own.

That is all, back to the regularly scheduled arguments and scream fests.