We have two peer-reviewed published papers at odds with one another over parts of the fist paper. I take it that there is controversy. Mike claimed that only the uneducated would hold the view of the two German scientists. I wonder how they got degrees and all if Mike is correct.

I view it as the author of the following does:

http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/11/politics_and_greenhouse_gasses.html

Regardless, it is a fact that any CO2 in the atmosphere that is there due to man is a tiny portion of the gases in the atmosphere and water vapor has a far greater effect on our weather than does the CO2 content. Bank on that.

Oh, and the Sun drives the climate. Look at the correlation of sun spots to the global temps.

If you wondered why over 31,000 scientists (over 9,000 of them having PhD’s) have signed a petition rejecting global warming, then you can't be one of ondy's group of anti-science types. (and these signatures came before climategate reveled the fraud and deception.

The new definition of a “Climate Denier” is one who denies that the ClimateGate fraud is real, or that the emails and documents are real or like some here says it doesn’t matter and that their plans to reduce the lifestyles of the world's people (the poor will get hit the hardest) and institute cap and trade and other heavy taxes will continue. One group or deniers is the UN group that was heavily relying on the data from the Hadley CRU, which has now been completely discredited.

Not only do the released emails show that those involved were trying to avoid releasing their data under the Freedom of Information Request in England, but that they were also destroying the raw data. They were also controlling who could get published; in an amazing attempt to subvert science itself.

It’s interesting that Phil Jones, one of those at the center of ClimateGate, profited heavily from this fraud. He’s apparently secured over $22 million in grant money; but now has has to "step aside" from his post as director of the now discredited CRU.

Seems that ondy and a few fellow travelers also want to use the fraud of man-made-CO2-caused-global-warming to control people and force them to do as ondy would have them do.

Fine, but how to explain all the falsified data and charts? All the tossed data? All the control of the peer review process?

Hell, what about the physics paper that I linked to? Someone here last night claimed his freshman physics text disproved the published paper. Oh, well perhaps when Mike gets to second year he will read the paper.

Oh well, interventionists live in a tiny world of their own imagination. Here is a small round-up of current events in the press.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100018556/climategate-its-all-unravelling-now/

Perhaps, but all the people from that region that I have known are just like people everywhere. It is knowing human nature that is important, not being able to list the names of the various factions in local disputes and other irrelevant or only partially relevant minutia.

The use of force to impose your will on others is bad juju. Bank on that.

You may retain your morality in self-defense but that is not what you are whining for here.

That was a good one Chris.

But, mathematicians often get to impose order (their will) on the models they build; the systems they build. It is sometimes difficult for them to realize that other humans will not appreciate the imposition of "order" onto themselves. So, I think he is acting very much like many mathematicians that I have known. Your mileage may vary.

"Of course, Hillary is lying to Ron. Bush demanded that the Afghan government turn over Osama. The Afghans asked for evidence of his guilt, as in any extradition request. What?! How dare they?! So the US invaded and still hunts the head of that government. Nor did any Afghan attack the US, though plenty of Americans have attacked Afghanistan. I assume Osama, from the billionaire bin Laden family of Bush family business partners, is guilty as charged. But though Colin Powell promised to turn over a folder of evidence to that effect to the UN, he never did." (Lew Rockwell)

Link to video at sig ...

Well, I have read this back and forth for days it seems. Ondy keeps saying that we need to go save people on the other side of the world at the expense of the poor, hungry, homeless, hopeless, and destitute in this his own country. He is saying "fuck the poor", I have people to save elsewhere!

I would like to know how one can lobby for the destruction of people in this country, and make no mistake the poor pay for it, while claiming high moral ground. In fact, I would like to know how one can claim high moral ground while lobbying for the use of force against innocent civilians on the other side of the world.

It seems that some idiot mathematician forgot that the real world of people is not the same as building a geometry or an algebra from postulates and definitions. We are killing real people, starving real people at home through neglect, choking our economy which hurts the poor, and otherwise neglecting to fix our own country first.

Look people, it you want to "save the world" then fix yourself first and be a shinning example to the misguided elsewhere. Don't try to make people love you by killing them; it just don't work.

Now that was funny.