On this thread, for example, one or two posters assumed that having a child is the Most-Important-Thing ever, and that wanting to use leave time to create or travel or start a business means one is a frivolous and selfish.

Oh yeah? Who said that? The only argument I've seen so far is that paid parental leave is a social investment that will, in aggregate, distribute benefits among all members of a society, whereas paid 'do whatever you want' leave (above and beyond the paid 'do whatever you want' leave that we commonly refer to as "vacation") only benefits the person taking the time off.

Wanting to take time off to do your own thing is great. I don't think its selfish or frivolous at all, in fact I think there should be more of it. But in terms of being publicly funded? Not unless there is going to be a demonstrable material benefit for society as a whole.

And for the person who asked: yes I have met parents who think their children crap out rose petals. Those are usually brand-new parents, or parents of onlies, or (more commonly) both. Once the second one comes along, or the precious babeen hits the "difficult years" (beginning at two, it seems) the bloom comes off the rose.

And also finally: I don't actually have any kids of my own, it doesn't look like it's going to happen any time soon, and I am never going to be the beneficiary of a years' paid leave unless I suddenly get pregnant and move to Sweden or wherever in like the next two years.

Actually if you read the title of my post, it referred to an *aggregate* social benefit, not that each individual produced must become a high-contributer to society. Spread across a population, it is better for babies to be well-nourished and have a sound family structure that will allow their developmental needs to be met than not, regardless of the outcome for specific individuals.

And by the way, if you think you have something to contribute through entrepreneurship, creativity, or what-have-you, then apply for a federal grant under your government program of choice and do it. There's money to be had out there that will allow you to take paid "leave" to engage in those pursuits, and you can be content in the knowledge that *your* personal choice is being supported by the taxpayers as well.

No? Then why expect non-married-with-kids to have to meet this standard of proof? Again, you are automatically assuming that someone having a kid is doing something worthwhile, while the person who wants to travel or create is not--and out to cheat business out of money, to boot.

I said nothing of the kind. What I did say was that insofar as society is expected to compensate for certain activities, the aggregate result should benefit that society as a whole. Providing compensation to allow new parents to stay home with their children for a set amount of time will have a net benefit for society as a whole in the form of diminished need for social welfare programs such as WIC, subsidized daycare, interventional therapies, and special education programs, individual outcomes notwithstanding.

I never specified "married". I also never said that people *should* have children, or that having children is the only fulfilling thing a person can do with his or her life. I don't have kids myself, and as every dateless weekend goes by, the likelihood of my having them in the future diminishes.

I never said that individual intellectual or creative pursuits were not worthwhile, and I certainly didn't say that people who want to engage in them were out to "cheat" anybody of anything (I have no idea where *that* came from.) I'm looking at the job postings for UTC this evening, because they *will* pay for their employees to go to school for whatever they want, *and* give them a bonus once they get their degree. That's so f-ing awesome, I'll answer phones for them if I can get in on that.

At some colleges, in fact, there is disgrace in not being a lesbian.

Uh...what? Anyone care to explain this? What colleges consider being straight or bi a disgrace? Blatant prejudice in a college, why would anyone accept that?

Smith College. It's not the college as an institution, it's the students, or at least a very visible portion of the student population, who openly sneer at and denigrate women who have the audacity to be attracted to and enjoy sex with the menfolk. One woman I know was called "immature" by her own friends (or perhaps, "friends") because she had a boyfriend.

You know what has a "whiff of sadness" for me? People who are so completely unable to be the unique individual they really are that they must construct an artificial self reflected to them from all their cool, hip shit.

As does the need to tell everyone about your disdain for all those sad hipster conformists and their lists. Because nobody else could possibly be so transcendently self-aware, right? It's important not just to be that, but to actually tell everyone you're above it all.

"Hey, let's all go nonconform together!"

Me, I just like lists. And me. And making lists about me:

Cryptonomicon <-- Nerd-girl cred

Snow Crash <-- 'I wish I was a Linux programmer' nerd-girl cred

Arrested Development <-- Hipster cred

Family Guy <-- Nerdy New England hipster cred

Heroes <-- Commerically-available nerd hipster cred

Lost, seasons 1 and 2 only <-- Jaded nerd hipster cred

Law & Order <-- No cred, unless I watch it ironically

Jose Gonzalez <-- Fine guitar-playing appreciation cred

The Cat Empire <-- Dancin' fool cred

The Grateful Dead <-- Hippie-chick cred

French cooking <-- 'I like my steak cooked in butter' cred

Fresca with sugar <-- 'I really, unironically, love Fresca' cred

White Castle cheeseburgers <-- 'No excuses or apologies' cred

McDonald's fries <-- Honestly-earned lowbrow cred

Walking on the beach on a foggy day <-- Romantic-soul-who-sunburns-easily cred

Riding my bike <-- Outdoorsy-girl cred

Roller derby <-- 'I occasionally wear interesting undergarments' cred

Derive whatever conclusions strike your fancy. At the end of the day I know who I am, as does every other sad conformist hipster who makes "faves" lists. Sometimes it's just fun to make lists. Hell, it's the only reason I ever read Harper's magazine. Do you think people really buy it for the political commentary? Get real. It's all about the Index.