Let's put Joan's comments against Obama in perspective:

She has said that it has taken her almost 8 years to forgive her friends who did not vote for Gore. Joan is wondering if she can justify voting for Obama now. Joan found it almost impossible to forgive her friends who weren't happy with Gore. She isn't happy with Obama. She has a thing about forgiving. She has a thing about who-we-all-should-vote-for.

It's almost like Joan figures out the "right" thing and then has an Old Testament she can apply to even those she cares about.

She isn't sure if she will vote for Obama (I applaud her for this consideration by the way). She knows those of us who did not believe in Gore were doing something immoral. She's intense. And so when she writes about Obama's weaknesses and how she may not vote for him, you've gotta remember how she feels about those who didn't believe in Gore. She is either going to pat you on the back for knowing what she knows or you will represent the "bad guys" who are making things worse for us all.

And this is a very limited context in which to "know" Joan. I get that.

Thanks, Glenn! And to everybody else who took some form of action in regards to this vote (even if it was just thinking about it for the first time; like me).

This is the type of thing that gives me great hope in these trying and utterly distracted times.

I'm with Joan on this. And I'm glad she puts things in context regarding dying soldiers. We would probably all do well to constantly do this.

I think Obama will less likly get us into a war than McCain. I think Obama has a better understanding than McCain about the systemic nature of world conflict and will do more to mitigate the kinds of American practices that reinforce the dangers we are facing. However, Obama has already demonstrated that he is comfortable with most of the conventional hawish talk. Compared to Hillary I was relieved that he at least would throw into question certain aspects of that. I think I've understood exactly what he meant about Diplomacy and Clinton frightened me with her opinion on this topic.

It's good for me to remember that Obama's objection to the war was unfortunatly not on principal. His objections (and there is a list) were strategic. I'm not saying I didn't agree with his list, but it would have been wonderful (from my point of view) if he had mentioned why we had no right to attack Iraq.

And I'd LOVE it if Obama's objection to us being in Iraq were based on a principal as well. But nope. Again, I'm not suggesting he's a bad man or his reasons aren't solid. But it is significant to note that he simply has never stated an objection to our militarily occupying a country in which a majority of the people don't want us there. Can you imagine if that was the case in our country? An alien species comes down to get rid of our awful leader for us and then won't leave, even though a massive majority of democrats and republicans want our country back and have major objections to the aliens purposes for occupy our land. And their leaders would say:

"Yes, sure, most Americans wish we'd stop occupying them militarily, but it's best for them if we stay for a while. We will get out when it is no longer helpful to us, or if too many of us are dying."

I don't expect us to get a president yet who can make primary objections based on principals such as these, but I think we are ready for a guy or gal who at least mentions them as viable reasons for not attacking people or occupying their land unwanted.

It might actually only be a mutated pile of Cheny's feces that would get them to leave us alone...We should definately keep him around. and well fed.

Hi Joan,

Yea, I winced as well when I read what Obama said. But you've gotta consider the possibility that Obama is such a noble and compassionate and utterly caring individual that he actually does feel sorry for McCain these days. Kidding.

I think

"We are the ones we've been waiting for"

is not great in terms of how it comes off the tongue- and for that reason alone might need to be scrapped- but I love the idea because it is one of the few political phrases that points to my main concern in politics: projection.

In reading your column today, it hit me again what a major role context plays. When you read a line such as the above Obama quote in the context of him talking to his base or his supporters, it sounds awful. However, when he says it in the context of talking to thousands upon thousands of individuals who have not real political connection to himself, the real meaning (or my real meaning, at least) of the phrase shines through. I haven't been able to watch the speech yet but I hope to soon.

hey, thanks for that link; very interesting!

I bet this thread is dead and not to be peeked into, but I wanted to say that you can find Krishnamurti constantly saying this back in the 1930's up until his death in 82 or 86...?

I think it is, ultimately, as true as it gets...

i just listened to this interview and can't believe how lucky we are to get this regularly! Thanks, Glenn. I imagine your interview with Chomsky is going to have a wonderful spin we don't regularly see in his typical conversation...

Anyway, thanks again and again and again....

It's past time for me to donate! Here I go.