virtue001, please go back and read what I've written to Joan because Salon just emailed me that they have deleted all the comments added into my responses to Joan by a computer Hacker. Isn't that crazy; some guy went in there and made it sound like I was suddenly praising the crap out of Joan. Go see; it's back to normal. I thank her for her response and challenge her on her logic, maintaining the same kinds of respectful comments I did even at my most frustrated with her. It's embarassing to think that you thought I had written those comments by Mr. Hacker. When you go back and read my letters to Joan, you will no longer see:

"Joan you are right on target once again. I've always treasured your unerroring reports."

"Joan, I'm stunned by how much smarter you are than most of us around here.

"Joan, I don't disagree with a word your brilliant fingers typed!!!

Virtue001, you'll be happy to know that it was the hacker who had written:

"Joan, thanks so much for responding to me. I don't want it to go to my head, but it's like having Michael Jordan ask you to shoot some hoops out on the court."

Fortunately (for me alone), I've always been able to "suck up" while at the same time pointing out what I find to be her impossible logic (which has serious consequences). It's not a bad way to treat somebody you actually respect. My guess is that you don't really respect me, though.

I would never accuse you of pretending to like somebody, so far. Have you ever done that? It reminds me of how...

I find it massively more helpful to hear why, specifically, you've lost respect for Joan than to read your best guesses about my moral weaknesses. I think that is because I have no reason to doubt you when you share your feelings/reactions/thoughts to and about Joan.

I believe you've read quite a few of my posts because you have clearly picked up on a seething sort of frustration that I often hold in responding to Joan's posts. It might sound crazy, virtue001, but I don't think that particular reaction has to do with Joan and it definitely isn't the type of thing that causes me to lose respect for somebody. I find it mostlyto be a rather immature reaction, one that I can very easily rationalize into some type of rightious justification for "attack". But that is just me.

In the context of these comments to Joan's thoughts, there is so much respect to be lost for the way people choose to treat each other, that if I was going to play the projection game fully it would take a while to get to Joan. That is not elevating her up above most people here. I think she, like many of the rest of us here, is basically not making this personal by attacking and accusing each other. That doesn't mean her conclusions or her premises are correct or that she isn't engaging in some intentional obscurism. But I get a headache just pretending I can or should figure her out based on her blogs. I'd rather try (it might be crazy) to locate those areas of conversation where she (or whoever I'm talking to hear) is willing to speak reasonably about her ideas. For as much as I disagree with her about her fundamental reasoning (so far) that we are learning something significant by the supposed fact that Obama's worst supporters are are more in number and significantly worse in kind than Hillary's worst supporters. I don't see any evidence for that at all, yet Joan uses that notion to inform and justify many of her recent blogs.

No, I was being silly and sarcastic because I didn't think my posts were very pandering. In fact (I have no desire to prove or argue you out of you view of me), when I read back the two previous posts, I noticed that each contained statements of my basic problem with Joan's stance. But hey, I'm sure you know that arguing about this type of perception issue can waste a lot of time in which actual ideas and observations can be discussed. That is part of the reason why I really want to hear Joan say more about her actual observations/thoughts related to the nature of Barack and Hillary's supporters. She mentions them a lot and even though it is not a topic I know how to generalize from, she obviously does. I do respect that she acknowledges the merits of the question and that it might do well to really consider it. But no hacker, just silliness.