I would say that if we were to leave Iraq tomorrow, blood would drip from the planet. As one person told me recently (he had been in Somalia during the "Blackhawk Down" scenario) that Iraq would make Somalia look like a cakewalk.

Blood is already dripping from the planet, and will continue to do so for some time.

The invasion and occupation of Iraq was a mistake from minute one, and every minute US troops remain there only furthers the mistake.

Like Glenn, I believe the US should end its occupation and all troops be withdrawn from the country in quick order.

Will this stop the violence plaguing Iraq? No.

Will it magically heal either Iraq or the US? No.

Will it ensure the rest of the region won't collapse? No.

But like it or not, the US can't do anything further in Iraq now. The US Army is on the brink of collapse, it has no allies to call upon to help carry the load, and their presence is only further sectarian divides.

Add to that how terribly vulnerable the US forces are both strategically and logistically and the argument for withdrawl becomes all the more urgent.

Leaving is the least worse available option left. Anything else is just fantasy, and I'd wager we've had enough of that.

I hate the 'what if it works' question.

Given no-one has given a satisfactory accounting of the objectives this 'surge' is supposed to accomplish? Exactly how is the introduction of a couple more brigades of troops - all of uncertain quality, training, equipment, and organization - supposed to accomplish anything in this mess?

But then, look who came up with it in the first place, eh?

Its clear now the poor boy is suffering auditory hallucinations. Probably thinks his opinion is of any import, too.

Every military action since WW2 has been commenced without Congressional approval, except those pursued by the Bush Presidents, I believe.

The devil is ever in the details:

US involvement in Korea in 1950 was carried out with full backing of the US Congress, albeit after US troops were already committed.

The expansion of US involvement in Vietnam was explicitly authorized by the Congress via the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution in 1964.

The Clinton Administration undertook Operation Desert Fox (the short air campaign against Iraq in 1998) were undertaken in support of pre-existing UN resolutions and attendant Congressional agreement.

The Clinton Administration never undertook a bombing campaign against the government of Bosnia-Herznegovia.

Operation Desert Shield/Storm did have both Congressional and UN authorization behind it.

Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002 used to 'justify' Operation Iraqi Freedom was meant, both in letter and spirit, to back up the use of weapons inspectors inside Iraq. That the second Bush Administration exceeded its writ and mandate there should surprise no-one.

Learn history, shooter, before you end up repeating it and getting still more people killed.

Dude, being a liar is disgraceful. You should be ashamed of yourself.

One suspects he's had the capacity for "shame" removed when he had himself lobotomized. It would certainly explain his lack of critical thinking and frankly sociopathic claims.

Glenn, you spoken in the past of the need to develop alternative outlets for news and information as a counter to the clearly-disconnected noise machine of the Beltway. Weblogs obviously do so on some degree, as do new ventures like Air America. Yet 'public discourse' is still dominated by the punditry who show no sign of actually understanding the issues they pontificate over.

Are we seeing any manner of sea change now against said punditry, or is it simply a case of more voices being added to the noise and simply a triumph of the loudest voices involved?

Plus, given the vested interests involved, is it realistic to think American media is even capable of providing something other than partisan propaganda for any given side?

...the Salon faithful equating (or worse?!?) the U.S. military with the terrorists.

Considering none of the commentators or responses here actually went and said such a thing? What are you really offended by?

That US troops are stuck in an unwinnable and increasingly untenable position an a distant land?

That your President and his entire staff put them there with falsehoods and misstatements, ones they persist in repeating and even expand upon daily?

That all the rosy predictions for this campaign turned out to be wrong, and with them any further rationale for continuing it?

Or it simply the fact you and yours are consistently called on your mistakes and misconceptions and cowardice, and that you lack the courage to admit to them?

You need to start disclosing your sources and facts, Elephantman.

Do we really wants to see the inside of his colon, ondelette?

By the way, it's always a good idea not to associate Fox news and FACTS if you want to be taken seriousely.

Sorry, Denning. Its already been well established shooter doesn't want to be taken seriously, merely shown what a fool he is time and again. You'd almost think he enjoys it.

Personally I'm not bothering any more.

You know what they say... if your adversary is digging a hole, don't intefere.

Good advice. Let us know when you've made it to China. You ought to fit right in there.