"Thousands of Iraqi dead" is the expected result of of a US troop pullout. And no, it's not a good thing. Thousands more dead anywhere is a bad thing. Thousands more American dead in another attack, planned in Afghanistan or Iran or Syria or Iraq Pakistan would also be a bad thing.

Get this through your head: Thousands of Iraqis are going to die anyway thanks to two small facts: (a) the occupation is an unredeemable botch that has left the country in ruins both socially and economically, and (b) there simply aren't enough troops to pacify all 180,000 square miles.

Americans will likely die in another 9/11-style attack because the current Administration doesn't understand the nature of the threat or is willing to take the objectively necessary steps to combat it.

And wouldn't it be a good thing to acknowledge all the thousands of Iraqi dead to date?

You and I both know the full number dead will likely never be know. The best we can hope for is the sort of statistical study undertaken by Lancet last year. Are you prepared to accept roughly half a million Iraqis have died to date, all thanks to the 2003 invasion?

I don't mind if people want to has out strategic differences with the administration. But let's not foget who the real enemy is. American troops aren't slaughtering Iraqis. Terrorists are slaughtering Iraqis.

Fair point. But let's also not forget what caused the original breakdown in Iraqi society that led to the current chaos, or is that too much for you?

When was the last time that Salon devoted some of its website space to an indictment of the people and the ideology responsible for the suicide bombings, the market-square bombings, the train station bobmings, the roadside IED bombings, the airport bombings, the nail bombings, the truck bombings. You get the idea.

You really should learn to read more than just Salon. You should also learn that acknowledging what a gods-awful mistake the invasion was, as well as the ongoing disaster current policies are inviting, doesn't excuse anyone else.

But that would require a calm head and clear eyes on the problem. Clearly, you lack both.

And the Democrats are the party of losing a war. AGAIN.

Let's see:

World War II, successfully won by a Democratic Administration.

Korean Conflict, ceasefire negotiated by a Republican Administration leaving US troops in harms way since 1953.

Vietnam Conflict, withdrawl of US troops undertaken by a Republican Administration, leaving Communist regime to successfully overrun the south and another to commit genocide in Cambodia.

Lebanese civil war in early 1980s, US troops placed in harms way with no clear mission or objective by Republican Administration, resulting in demoralizing 'redeployment' after a single truck bombing.

Support of the Afghan resistance, pursued by a Republican Administration with only the shortest-term goals in mind, the obvious consequences of which were blithely ignored.

Grenada intervention, a sideshow initiated by a Republican Administration that demonstrated the shortcomings of US doctrine of the time; hardly worth mentioning.

The Gulf War of 1991, a triumph of logistics by a Republican Administration that accomplished its stated goals, but left larger issues unresolved and ultimately required a continued deployment to the region, not to mention the complete withdrawl of political support of native anti-Hussein efforts tainting the victory itself.

Somalia intervention, a humanitarian mission with limited US involvement started and ended by a Republican Administration, leaving the job half-finished and refusing to commit necessary resources into the field.

Kosovo intervention, US involvement successfully pursued by a Democratic Administration utilizing diplomatic and military assets.

Intervention in Afghanistan by the current Administration, which refused to commit necessary resources to see the job through and which has ignored the country ever since.

The invasion of Iraq in 2003, also by the current Administration, which has resulted in little of note and nothing of long-term positive nature.

Seems the Elephants have greater affinity for loosing in the field than the Donkeys, doesn't it?

Hmmmm, politics and pragmatism. Yeah, let's become opportunistic scavengers of whatever we can hustle from other people. Principles? Not for us, thank you.

I daresay this is the most honest accounting you've ever offered of yourself. Perhaps there's hope for you yet.

Or not.

I think it's more frightening to comtemplate someone with no moral compass at all, doing the pragmatic or politic thing of the moment. That's how eugenics, McCarthyism, or the killing fields of Cambodia came to be.

You realize those were all Republican-led initiatives, right?

You people seem to forget that Bush waged the least bloody, most circumspect, campaign ever fought. The killing after the actual invasion is generated by non-Americans. Even Murtha's shining moment of declaring our troops murderers at Haditha is being proven wrong.

Actually the Haditha incident is still being investigated and eight Marines have been charged in connection with the 'accidental' deaths of 15 Iraqi civilians.

The speed and success of the US invasion back in 2003, while impressive, is singularly responsible for the sectarian violence that has taken place since. Its not something to either brag about nor celebrate.

Unless of course you are celebrating Iraq descending into civil war.