As a mother, I've noticed that my tears can quell the intense rivalry between my two sons; they quickly join forces to comfort me.

Plus, I love the drama.

Does C.B. not see what's wrong with these paragraphs ? By manipulating her sons this way she's teaching them that women are dishonest manipulative emotional fakers. Poor kids. I wonder if she will think it so cute when they refuse emotional intimacy with their girlfriends/wives.

Another step away from the reason I subscribe, another area that excludes me.

What is it with salon lately ? its turning into Women's Day. If I needed sophomoric coy little articles on "empowering womyn ! girls can do anything !" then I head over to oxygen.

What patronising hackneyed rubbish. I look forward the section devoted to what men care about, I'm sure it will be full of insiteful articles on how to pull chicks.

I common with many others, unless you reverse this insulting chicklit trend I'm dumping my Salon subscription. I damn near did with the creation of this section.

Just looking at the the title again - "cheeky" - how precious. I wanna vomit.

So he was one of the biggest male boosters for this section. Figures - his articles always did tend towards the shallow kneejerk end of the tripe specturm.

To Rebecca Traister:

I am not a women - I am a man. Neverless there are some articles in Broadsheet that I like - both the fluffy & the serious.

But I resent the *CRAP* out of it that they are considered womens interest first in a womens area, I thought Salon was for *EVERYONE*.

By creating broadsheet you've segrated salon into male & female areas and I despise that.

Shame on you.

You go girl ! girls can do anything !

Yup, you nailed it. Salon is full of rednecks and women in denial who hate any hint of women standing up for themselves.

Or - perhaps if you actually read the content of the responses minus the filter of your preconceptions you'd realise that the vast majority (if not all) of the respondents are committed feminists (female *and* male) who are disturbed by this seperation of "womens" news from the mainstream, all neatly tied up in a patronising little pink bow.

It doesn't help that the editors have completly failed to respond to this concern, merely mouthing platitudes about empowerment and cheekyness.

Rebecca - you say you been reading the messages yet choose to concetrate on the pink complaints.

Let me repeat for the millionth time - We don't like the news being segrated into womens and (implictly) mens areas.

The pink colour as irritating as it is to many, is a red herring. The bulk of the concerns is that placing womens news in a seperate area and yes - wrapping it in a pink bow is a message many find offensive.

Salon staff can go on and on about how *everyone* is welcome in broadsheet. The fact of the matter is the majority of people are saying they are *NOT*, and you are not listening.

Your're just not listening, there's a bubble there I just can't penetrate.

Perhaps if I camped out in the Salon office and cried it would make a difference.

Here's what Broadsheet enables us to do: get information about a women's strike in Iceland ...

In what way was salon unable to perform this before ? I don't recall any "NO GURLS NEWS ALLOWED" sign on salons main pages. Does broadsheet embue staff with mystical reporting abilites they lacked previously ?

You're speaking marketing babble, this is rubbish.

I don't know how many ways to tell you that I understand the complaints about the segregation. I do! I do! I write (in part) about women's issues and the feminist movement for a living. I promise I get it; I promise I've thought about it a lot. I just disagree with you about it.

Thats good to hear, appreciated.

Time for me to chill out for a bit now I think.

I should also clarify that I have not written any stories about women crying in the office

Bugger - my humplest apologies

You say its news for women, since I'm a man does this mean its not news for me ? I shouldn't be reading it ?

Biggest political scandal since Watergate/Lewinsky and there's nothing in Broadsheet on it.

I guess its not news for women, good thing they don't have to worry their cheeky pink heads about it.

Sorry - I have no idea what you're talking about, haven't seen it used anywhere around the forums/TT - certainly nothing to do with me.

"a working-class, rural, white background, especially someone of Scottish descent"

Oddly enough that is *exactly* my background :)

LH reminded me of my comment "To Nicole D. Yup, you nailed it. Salon is full of rednecks and women in denial who hate any hint of women standing up for themselves" a while back which I had forgotton about.

I'm stunned you failed to notice that was sarcasm - words fail me.

Joan, are you going to start the new decade by living up to the promise embodied in that Table talk thread ? because you and the rest of salon have been sadly absent from the storm of pleading, suggestions and criticism regarding Broadsheet and lately, the direction of salon in general.

Excepting of course a couple of patronising offhand comments.

Actually the new design has finally iterated into something I like. Clearly laid out with strongly differentiated areas and readable fonts. The subtle gradients in the boxes help them stand out, Kudos - good job.

Jury's still out on whether I like the actual organisation of topics on the front page but its definately very readable now, I'll fill you in when I decide on that - I'm sure you're all waiting with bated breath :)

we don't even notice that our lives are just really long to-do lists with half the stuff crossed of

Heather Havrilesky is one of the most pithy insightful writers on salon.