Here's the crux: "If you carry a few extra pounds, do you want people to say so? First, people don't like unpleasant truths about themselves. Second, Obama's description doesn't fit all struggling people. Go back and read what I said in parentheses in my last post about my own life. No, Obama's statement really doesn't fit me. I know other working class people it doesn't fit. Generalizing that way is a bad move."

What you seem to be saying is that pandering is the smart thing to do.

People don't like unpleasant truths?

Christ on a fucking pogo stick, what are we, a nation of infants?

So therefore what, it's ok to tell people the lie that, though we were attacked, it's ok because we're going to go get payback in Iraq?

Seriously, don't you think that maybe it's about time that someone have the fucking guts to at least attempt to tell people unpleasant truths and not pander shamelessly like we're three years old?

Now, the merits of this particular analysis aside, whatever we think about it, are you seriously faulting Obama for attempting to tell the truth as he sees it?

If so, if you're really saying this is somehow a negative thing, then Jesus Christ, we deserve everything we get.

I can't believe someone intelligent as you would make such a reckless argument.

And why is not shameless pandering considered condescending?

Fair is foul and foul is fair, truly.

I think you're taking an extremely narrow view of things whereas Obama's is much, much more expansive.

He's not talking about people not voting for him.

He doesn't give a rat's ass about that. (Obviously he wants their votes, I just mean he's not willing to do anything to get them, like kiss their asses or drink coffee when he prefers orange juice.)

He's talking about the phenomenon of "Reagan Democrats."

Wow. Not kissing the voters' asses is somehow condescending.

Amazing.

As to wounded pride, don't you think that this preposterous sense of pride is to blame for war fever?

Don't you think it's time for a president who doesn't go about shouting, "U-S-A! U-S-A!"

Seriously, if this whole thing turns on pandering to people's pride, then really, we'll never get anywhere and it hardly matters who wins because again, they'll have no serious mandate.

Good God, grow the fuck up, America.

Fair enough.

I'm going to stop now because I'm getting really angry and that's not a side of myself I like to indulge.

It's true, I am mad.

I'm mad because the pride you refer to is the same pride that's so easily exploited by politicians whenever there's a war to be waged.

It's the thing that made us so blindly gung-ho going into Iraq.

It's insidious.

It's dangerous.

Whatever, I could go on and on but I know I'm in a very tiny "elitist" minority, part of the "blame America first" crowd.

I'm just tired of the pretending.

Ok, fair enough, but opening a fabric print plant building sure seems more like something done by a capitalist and not a worker, but point taken, they weren't fabulously wealthy, I get it, but nor were they by any stretch of the imagination economically insecure.

Obama speaks his own language.

Christ, is it too much to ask people to meet one halfway?

Sorry, but speaking a language to people when it's not your own is pandering, in my book.

And btw, this basic analysis is the same one offered by Michelle in her speech in Milwaukee the night before the Wisconsin primary, so I don't think it's so much an issue of Obama saying these things only behind closed doors in SF, fwiw.

"as someone who in the past 6 months has amassed 13K in credit card debt trying to feed my family and keep my house since a layoff from crappy corporate job,"

I wish I knew what to say. My heart goes out to you, sincerely.

That anyone is in this situation in this country fills me with rage.

Wow. Just wow.

Congrats to the kids, bb!

Off to become little elitists.

"Hillary knows this damn well, and she's willing to eat her own young to win this election. That is, she's willing to tear Obama down for saying the truth that all Democrats should be willing to admit. In the end she hurts the greater cause for the short term win, much in the same way the right has done for the last decade or so."

Perfect.

She does this at every turn. Exploiting right-wing talking points (thus lending them credence) instead of rejecting them out of hand.

Whose side is this woman on?

Monster.

You mean peoples' capacity to reject rank negativity?

Obama makes me believe it's possible.

We shall see what we shall see...

Thank you, manos, you're absolutely right.

I appreciate the note of optimism.

Not sure what I was meant to take out of that piece, but I did notice this:

"One of Clinton's staunchest supporters, Sen. Evan Bayh, D-Ind., acknowledged there was some truth in Obama's remarks. But Republicans would use them against him anyway, Bayh said."

Fuck the Republicans.

Seriously, fuck them.

Why is everyone so afraid of what they'll do?

As if we should or could ever, ever find some candidate they won't smear like they did Max Cleland, John Kerry, John McCain, etc., etc., etc.

I mean Christ, isn't it time for someone to grow a spine and stop shivering in their boots about what the big, bag Republicans will say?

Fucking priceless.

I know, I know, you're right.

I have buttons too, you know, is all.

Really, though, I'm cracking up about the "outrageous San Francisco remarks."

The stones on these people.