"The third and major flaw in your argument is the idea that the B-word is somehow equivalent to the N-word. I strongly disagree with this contention. The N-word has a whole history of slavery associated with it. The B-word is a much more culturally accepted thing. I was just watching "X-Men 3" the other day, and Juggernaut is chasing Ellen "Juno" Page, who pulls him down into the floor, and he replies, "I'm the Juggernaut, bitch!" The black guard in the van transporting Mystique also calls HER a "bitch." (I found both uses of the word lame, and I blame director Brett Ratner, but I think it goes to show that the word "bitch" is more readily accepted in current discourse than the N-word is.)"

To be fair, I think this begs the question a little.

Joan's contention (if I'm understanding her correctly) is in fact that the word 'bitch' is as potently sexist as 'nigger' is racist, although the latter is widely recognized.

Perhaps the point is that the word 'bitch' now enjoys the currency 'nigger' once did, and that in a generation or two, society will be just as (publicly) shocked by its use as it is now by the word 'nigger.'

You can argue about whether there really is an analogy between the two words, but the example you use about the movie only demonstrates that the word 'bitch' enjoys wide, uncritical currency, not that it's not the equivalent of 'nigger.'

(While we're on the subject, it's a propos to mention 'cocksucker,' too. There was a time when that word was much more acceptable as a generic, derogatory epithet, but I think there's an increasing sensitivity to the implicit homophobia behind the word.)

Fwiw, I don't use the word 'bitch' because enough women I've cared about and respected have expressed their discomfort with the word.

Other women I know use it themselves.

Hmmm...what to do, what to do...?

My solution is to just avoid it altogether, mostly because why would resist someone's request not to use what even just some people see as dehumanizing language?

I want to second Hutman and others who ask why the comparison of sexism affecting Clinton and racism affecting Obama is an important one.

Is it an idle curiosity or is the answer (presuming such a sloppily-formulated question can be definitively "answered") of consequence?

And if the latter, let's say we can determine that Clinton has indeed suffered more grievously from sexism than Obama has from racism, the question is, ok, so therefore... what?

Not a rhetorical question.

"The problem is that it's nonsense, in this culture, with this language, at this time."

I think a major flashpoint to this whole debate comes because we presume some kind of objective, universal standard.

"In this culture, with this language, at this time..."

All three of those things are unstable, constantly shifting depending on the context, the speaker, the listener, the histories each person brings, etc.

So while yes, there can be some kind of rough, working consensus about acceptable/unacceptable, or whatever, such a consensus can't adequately reflect diversity.

For instance, in concrete terms, one of my dear friends, very politically aware and active, a self-identified feminist, philosophy major and accomplished nonfiction writer, explained to me with great feeling why she felt the word "bitch" was equivalent to the word "nigger" in the way both serve to disempower or cut down individuals by discrediting the entire group to which they belong.

Sounds plausible to me.

Why would I argue with that?

I'm not saying what she said was objective truth, but it was plausible enough and heartfelt enough that I took it to heart.

Now, was she "typical?" No. But she was sensitive and she was thoughtful, so it meant something to me.

I find it plausible that, after a generation or two, more people will come to see things from her perspective.

I'd welcome that.