I will grant you the point about Dodd, to the extent that he was running for the Dem nomination and not in the general election. And yet none of the other senators in the race supported him in any meaningful way.

But you write:

#2. I wouldn't really describe myself as an Obama apologist (which I guess isn't really a big surprise.) I don't think he has anything to apologize for. Ultimately, as an Obama supporter for whom it is very important that he WIN, I would probably be more annoyed if he had done the valiant and politically harmful thing of flat out refusing to support this bill at all. (Obviously I still disagree with you as to the number of options he had before him.)

And I of course still just very much disagree with you that Obama would be a bad president (and really don't see how this one instance can make you so sure of that notion.)

If Obama has nothing to apologize for, may I assume you agree with him that voting for this bill is the right thing to do? You seem to be suggesting this, on the grounds that he should not hurt his chances to win.

So, in short, he is a good guy and should win no matter what he does. Is that about the size of it?

But why do you feel he did not have the option to lead the fight against this bill? I do not believe that doing so would have harmed his chances to win. On the contrary, we Americans tend to admire real leaders who put it on the line for their beliefs.

But even if we assume, for the sake of argument, that fighting against the bill would be politically harmful, so what? So it would harm him politically. At least he would not be doing what he apparently did, which was to do the wrong thing in order to advance his political ambitions.

Today's disgraceful action by Obama was only the last straw. Obama, as I have said around here many times, was always far from the top of my list. He was above Clinton and Gravel for me, and that is it.

This isn't just about politics as usual. This FISA capitulation bill is a freak show. I just heard John Dean on TV pointing out that it isn't even well drafted. It is a major assault on our civil liberties; it is not just another pork bill that we can vote up or down and who really cares?

And wasn't Obama claiming to be different? How is caving in to the right wing to hand George Bush and Dick Cheney everything they want so different?

In either case, I always thought he was weak on too many issues. Social Security, Healthcare, you name it. This is the last reason to dump him, not the only reason to dump him.

I believe he would be a bad president because we have not had any really good presidents for a very long time. I believe we are getting what our system delivers, no more, no less.

I see no evidence that Obama would change the system. And unless the system is changed we will continue to have bad presidents and bad congresses.

I have not missed an election, including local elections, since 1972. I won't miss this. But I won't be voting for either of the major party candidates. My disgust has peaked and that is that.

Who writes:

I have been searching my usual haunts like Diogenes, looking for someone who will rightfully criticize Obama for this shitty and cowardly move, and, indeed, all I see is people making excuses and defending Obama as "shrewd" and "smarter than us" or saying he will fix it later. Right. Keep dreaming.

Your search is over. As I said yesterday around here, I more than criticize Obama. I am through with him. I am voting third party.

There has to come a time when cynical Dem politicians stop selling out their principles on the grounds that, well, they'll vote for me anyway, because [fill in the blank] is even worse.

Do we stop that by continuing to allow politicians like Obama to sell us out?

I agree with Glenn that Obama is not as bad as McCain. But Obama has proven that he is just another power-mad control freak who will do whatever it takes to be The Boss.

I will watch, sadly, as the days go by and today's blind followers begin to wake up.

Obama is not change you can believe in; he is just another guy who, tantalized by the prospect of authoritarian power, reaches out with both hands.

I just hope if he is elected he waits a decent interval before bombing Iran. (because he doesn't want to offend his establishment pals)