I second Bystander's appreciation of Ondelette's patient explanations. These things would be way beyond my capacity to figure out on my own so I'm very thankful our resident experts are also wonderful teachers.

I also wanted to let everyone know that You all and Glenn were high on my list of things to be thankful for this year for all of the reasons so many others articulated much better than I ever could have.

Not sure if it's the turkey, but something about the holiday has really upped the ante in the comments section the past two days. It's been all I could do to just read and digest. Many thanks to all, and welcome to the newcomers.

Bebop, your description of the sunrise yesterday was the perfect way to start the holiday. Thank you.

Glenn, thanks for taking this to the next level. The editors who allow this sort of thing have been hiding behind their more visible columnists for too long. Throwing them into the pot and making things hot for them as well is a good way to improve this stew. It will be interesting to see how they respond to having a fork stuck into them.

You also seem to have handed Mr. Klein his head.

Nice job.

You've missed a classic. It's been like watching a Master Chef carve a turkey. ;->

Key West is fantastic. Haven't been there in years but would love to go back.

But civil rights slid into special preferences (for everyone, it seemed, but white men), and Vietnam slouched, all too often, into reflexive pacifism and a distrust of the military.

Joe clearly has issues that are quite a bit older and deeper seated than any dust-up over a FISA bill. I don't doubt that his own fears about being considered "feminized, antiwar, politically correct" drive a lot of what can only be considered irrational behavior.

-- Paul Dirks

...and put him in the dustbin of history. That is what Glenn is in the early stages of accomplishing right now. I doubt I'm alone when I say that this particular version of 'masculinity' leaves me cold.

Give me a "feminized, antiwar, politically correct" man any day. Let's evolve, shall we?

"And I shouldn't have to bother." is the rest of that statement.

Isn't this exactly the same kind of "elitist" behaviour that the right plasters on the left?

So, in addition to being a pathetically 'labelled lefty' that the right can count on to parrot the 'correct' agenda, Klein also becomes an example they can refer to should they decide they are displeased with his initial offerings.

The key to Serious Mainstream Media success is not only to have the attention span of a bumblebee, but to induce the same state in your readers...

-- Democritus

They definitely promote a 'hive' mentality. Joe, and his ilk, are a very large part of that.

The sad thing about this is that at the end of the day, Time actually wins out. First, their resident bonehead gets his facts wrong resulting in a severe uptick in pageviews at Swampland (where they're selling Jaguars by the way)

Klein may win over the print readers (discounting those who read and yet still manage to think for themselves), but an uptick in pageviews at the website can only be a good thing as long as those viewers are compulsive enough to read the comments section, which is eviscerating ol' Joe like the decrepit animal he's shown himself to be. I think we've got a better-than-even opportunity here. Am I hallucinating?

Glenn, carve this turkey to the bone.

-- thelastnamechosen

Great minds think alike , 'n' all dat. ;->

It seems to me that it is not an extreme opinion to believe that some court should have some oversight before the government can wire tap my communications with my friends in Switzerland.

Ditto for me and my in-laws in the Czech Republic.

Klein is obviously and deservedly nervous as a whore in church. Of course, he'll receive absolution from the priests at Time Warner, but in the future, he'll have to be considerably more artful when he is channeling Bill O'Reilly.

I don't think he's up to it. Thanks for pointing that out, and have a safe voyage home.

Perhaps we need a place where jaded, cynical, past their prime press employees (I don't want to dampen any aspirations at Berkeley or Berkman by calling them journalists) can go.

I would gladly contribute to the "Obsolete Press Employee" retirement fund as long as there's a clause that ensures that writers like Klein will be retired immediately.

Joe, I shit in your general direction.

-- grcorre

Thanks grcorre, this made my cheeks hurt.

I hang out with children today.

I have a new niece. She is a precious infant, so sweet. It makes me understand the depth of my investment in the future and the importance of what Glenn is doing here today.

I'm checking the Time schedule to see when a train departs to Ohio. You got a soggy cup? I'll appear with a jug of brew for two.

Soggy cups are waiting. Anytime. Especially if we can soak them in blueberry wine.

calm down, Pedinsksa. You a carnivore?

I am still learning 'calm', after all these years. Trust and belief are the keys. I try to only eat meat when necessary. ;->

Let's praise the truth and mock the Lie.

Those who follow the greedy go to a grave to rot.

As always, you see through the fog...