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Sunday, Nov 8, 2009
on_second_thought
Published Letters: 61
Someone asked early in the thread about links for EU support for Israel membership in Nato. I did not find one for the whole EU, but Spanish ex-prime minister expressed support for the inclusion of Israel in Nato:
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?apage=2&cid=1167467792055&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
So, this idea is not as crazy as you make it out to be. Right now, the world is helpless to stop Iran from its nuclear ambitions. Inclusion of Israel in NATO would at least alleviate Israel's constant existential fear of annihilation. And I don't see how this inclusion would automatically mean that US will fight in all of Israel's wars. I think this is a very weak conjecture.
and it is more realistic than what Mr. Kamiya proposes.
In a few years, Israel develops a missile shield capable of intercepting Palestinians' rockets. Having resolved the security issue without Palestinians' help, Israel can finally leave West Bank, the same way they left Gaza. Of course, they will get nothing in return, because Palestinians don't want to give up any of their 'rights,' the biggest of them the Right of Return. This is the convergence plan that Olmert wanted to do when he came to power, but could not after it became clear that Palestinians will start shooting from the West Bank right at his office in Tel-Aviv. This status quo will still not satisfy Mr. Kamiya or Gideon Levy, but I don't see how this can possibly lead to a situation, where Palestinians can legitimately demand equal voting rights.
There is one thing Mr. Kamiya forgot to mention, and it is Israeli recent rhetorical demand of Palestinians to recognize Israel as a Jewish state, as an implicit recognition that they will have to give up the demand of the Right of Return for all the Palestinian refugees. So far, the Palestinians, including Abbas and the enlightened and moderate prime-minister Fayad, not to mention all their negotiators, categorically refused.
In the words of a JPost writer, can we now say that the 'occupation' is over?
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1201367873276&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
Egypt has a border with Gaza, just as Israel, the only difference is Palestinians are not shooting rockets into Egypt. Israel would be very happy if Egypt assumed responsibility for Gaza, but Egypt is actually terrified of this scenario.
I couldn't believe the final suggestion of Gary Kamiya. Israel is supposed to feel so bad for people of Gaza and so ashamed of itself that it should capitulate to Hamas and give them whatever they want? You mean Israel should care for Palestinians in Gaza more than Hamas? And we're not talking about some ruthless dictator like Hussein, but an organization that has strong roots in Gaza. If people of Gaza don't care enough about their misery to demonstrate against Hamas, why should Israel "bite the bullet" and agree to a cease fire with Hamas for the sake of Gazans?
This just shows that Gary Kamiya only cares about Palestinians. This article is a waste of time to anyone who doesn't share this position.
I find it so disheartening reading these letters, where people just pile together a jumble of things with no regards for reality. They're no different from Bush, except arguing for another side.
Let me throw together some things I regard as facts and see if we can argue on this basis:
1) Hamas refuses to recognize Israel's right to exist. In response Israel refuses to deal with Gaza and considers it a hostile entity. This position is supported by both US and European Union.
2) Gaza was not created by Israel. It was part of Egypt, which refused to take it back in 1967. Egypt is adamant about refusing to accept any responsibility for Gaza.
3) Most of the Jews in Israel are Sephardi Jews, many of whom (some 800000) came there when they were expelled from Arab countries when Israel was created. It is not true, as someone stated that Israelis are mostly Ashkenazi who are foreign to the land.
4) Israel was created as a homeland for Jews in 1948, and this is specified in the UN resolution. The same resolution called for establishment of Palestinian state. That state was never established because of the war of 1948.
Now, please stop calling Gaza a Gulag and blaming Israel for whatever comes to your mind. Also, stop debating whether or not Israel has the right to exist as a Jewish state. It was created as such in 1948 and it is no longer up to you to question it.
It must be comforting to set up a straw man and then throw tomatoes at him. However,
1) I never called anyone anti-semite. I prefer to argue on merits of what was said
2) I was responding to specific letters who were really questioning whether Israel should exist as a Jewish state or should be merged into one Palestinian state.
3) I was also responding to a letter a while back of someone who suggested that Israelis are foreigners and are all Ashkenazim
4) I was also responding to the letter just above that suggested that Israel imprisoned Palestinians into Gaza "Gulag."
5) What exactly is your point about my "four entries all to support Israel"? If I write in four different discussion threads, what relevance do those letters have to the one I just wrote? I never monopolize the discussion and try to argue as specific as possible.
You have nothing of substance to say except to attack my handle, which is kind of stupid, because I never gave it too much significance. What do you care what handle I chose a year ago, anyway?
Much of the initial coverage about Fort Hood turned out to be wrong. Is there anything wrong with that?
The accountability imposed by another country for the CIA's kidnapping and torture reveals much about our own.
Fox News' morning show plays to type, talking about whether Muslims in the Army should face "special debriefings"
The survivor and author is upset about comparisons some on the right are making to genocide
Once seen as a lunatic fringe, reactionary anti-women groups are courting respectability
Salon headlines in your mailbox
